Hertford Loop/Hertford North

[Flamingo]

Yes, many thanks for that. It took me a while to realise that the sidings at the extreme right were really quite close to the old terminus station at Enfield Chase, not the later station built when the line was extended to Hertford and north thereof. So the full distance on that track diagram must be about 3 miles. At PG the main traffic for the goods yard was wagons of house coal and the short siding on the down side just south of the station served a small timber yard. In October 1944 a German V2 rocket landed on the line about 100 metres beyond the country end of the up platform. My first school was about 1/4 miles from PG station and I can remember hearing a tremendous explosion, but it couldn't have been caused by that rocket because this incident was during school hours while the time when the rocket landed was given as about 6.45 pm in the official records.

[StevieG]

.... You might be roughly right about the 'three miles', but the sidings were regarded as Winchmore Hill yard, about halfway down the hill from Winchmore to Grange Park, still nearly(?) a mile from Enfield 'old', and 'Chase'.

[lead_plug]

While the subject is Goods Yards, can anyone help me with this query?

During the post-war 40's I sometimes enjoyed a week on the second shift of the Enfield Shunt. This involved signing on at a very comfortable time in the morning and travelling passenger to, I believe, Enfield Chase, where we relieved the first shift who had been shunting where required along the London end of the Hertford Loop. I've no knowledge of the first shift's activities because the job never came my way!
We chuntered about Enfield Yard until late afternoon, then worked a train to Ferme Park.

At that time, the only item of interest to me, apart from the derelict passenger terminal was a signal in the yard of a type that I never encountered anywhere else.
This was a standard somersault near the entrance to the yard which was noisily reversed as the loco ran over a treadle installed adjacent to the running rail.
Can anyone explain why the yard required a treadle operated signal and why it could not have been worked by a lever in a box or ground frame?
I'm sorry that I can't even remember whether the board controlled traffic entering or leaving the yard.

[StevieG]

I think it was for entering traffic.
None of my info. is to hand at present, but it was seemingly worked by a ground frame by the goods shed wall, with, I think, only the 1 lever.
I sketched the layout in around 1969, when the GF was still there, but no signal, but I had heard there was something unusual about its operation ; - your 'treadle' would seem to be a part of that.

[StevieG]

.... You might be roughly right about the 'three miles', but the sidings were regarded as Winchmore Hill yard, about halfway down the hill from Winchmore to Grange Park, still nearly(?) a mile from Enfield 'old', and 'Chase'.

I now see that the sidings to the right of RP's Palmers Green box diagram must in fact have been in the area of (from the A-Z) the N. end of Stratfield Park Close / Hillcrest / S. part of Gatward Close, and so were at around 8M 10Chs. (i.e., approx. 1.5 miles from PG).
[ Palmers Green station.."6M 50Chs."
..Winchmore Hill station.."7M 63Chs."
..Grange Park station....."8M 35Chs."
..Enfield Chase station..."9M 09Chs." ]

[ajax103]

G'Day Gents

Just found this thread again? I have a set of plans for a halt (London end of Ponsbourne Tunnel) quarter mile from tunnel, to be called 'Tolmer Park', a new housing estate was to be built next to it. The plans are dated 16-8-35.
manna

Sounds like it was planned very close to Cuffley or was Cuffley the intended site?

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Cuffly was 1m-17 chains, Bayford 2m-22 chains, Kings Cross 14-34 chains, So yes it was rather close, the old N2's and class31 diesels would have coughed a bit,power on, power off.

Enfield town after being bypassed was used as a goods yard for many years, I used to shunt the banana trains into the platforms for unloading, it was part of a KX diagram light engine to Hertford Nth, all stations to Moorgate, ECS to Ferme Pk Cs, light engine to Enfield Town, shunt as required, then I think light engine to ether Bounds Green or Hornsey CS then ECS to KX
manna

[Moray Nichol]

When the line was electrified in the mid 1970's I wrote to the British Rail department who were ripping out the station signs and asked if I could buy some of the station enamel signs. I have letters from the "BR Head of Works & General Section" that let me buy "Bowes Park", "Palmers Green & Southgate", and "Winchmore Hill". They sold them to me for a few pounds. I would offer them back to the current lot who run the show but they wouldn't have a clue what I mean.

[Flamingo]

What size signs are they - the small dark blue Eastern Region totems or something larger? Any chance of a picture of the PG&S sign, I might be interested in that one having grown up in that area.

[Moray Nichol]

They are the large BR dark blue with white lettering. The one that I always wanted was "Grange Park" but I didn't get it.

I have taken a photo of "Palmers Green & Southgate" and "Bowes Park" which I will post at this URL for a few days: http://www.gumdrops.demon.co.uk/

If it is possible to upload photos to this forum perhaps someone would let me know how to do this.

Palmers Green is in two large sheets, and Bowes Park is a double sided sign (Bowes Park station being an island platform). The BR idiots who removed the Winchmore Hill sign back in the 1970's bent it completely in half so that the "O" in Winchmore has been destroyed. Still I am looking taking care of it and it will not be lost.

I remember coal fires in the waiting room on the Winchmore Hill down platform. Happy days.

[ajax103]

Wow, would have been nice if you had a Hertford North one as myself and another colleague would have no qualms about buying it off you!

Still, if you look very carefully in the undergrowth at Grange Park, you can still see slabs with the letters painted onto them in red paint which would make the words Grange Park.

Still the others do look nice.

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Anyone have any idea when those signs would have been put up?????
manna

[Flamingo]

They are the large BR dark blue with white lettering. The one that I always wanted was "Grange Park" but I didn't get it.

I have taken a photo of "Palmers Green & Southgate" and "Bowes Park" which I will post at this URL for a few days: http://www.gumdrops.demon.co.uk/

If it is possible to upload photos to this forum perhaps someone would let me know how to do this.

Palmers Green is in two large sheets, and Bowes Park is a double sided sign (Bowes Park station being an island platform). The BR idiots who removed the Winchmore Hill sign back in the 1970's bent it completely in half so that the "O" in Winchmore has been destroyed. Still I am looking taking care of it and it will not be lost.

I remember coal fires in the waiting room on the Winchmore Hill down platform. Happy days.

Your Bowes Park sign might have been displayed outside the station entrance, I don't remember the road access there. The large PG name would have been on the end of the up or down platform. The dark blue on Eastern Reguon station was the best of the BR Regional colours I think, though the NE tangerine signs were distinctive, not that I saw many of them. Somewhere in the garage I have a NE 'Staff Room' sign in tangerine.

Should you need to find a new home for your signs it might be worth contacting the local transport museum near Crews Hill station, its called the Whitewebbs Museum of Transport or something like that. They have a website which can be searched for under that name. Their main collection is road vehicles but they do have some railway items, I went there once several years ago.

Re uploading images here, it's quite easy, just scroll down the page from the message section to where it says Upload Attachment, then locate the image to be uploaded on your PC and click 'Add the file'. When it's finished uploading then click 'Submit' as usual and the image should appear with your message.

Here's another ER dark blue sign which I saw still displayed on the station many years after BR had done away with all the Regions. Anyone know if it's still there?

Boston in ER dark blue regional colour.

[Moray Nichol]

Many thanks for telling me about Whitewebbs and explaining attachments. I will upload the picture now so that it remains on this board.

Does anyone know what happened to the sign on the side of the signal box at the Cross ? I expect that one went to the York museum.

[StevieG]

KX ; - I believe there were signs on both sides of the box, though. [ It sat pretty central in the layout, at the end of Plats. 5 & 6 (the current 4 & 5 as from about 1972.) ]