New Southgate

[2562]

I'm going through an old collection of photos and came across this one. I'm guessing that it was taken by my father, and close inspection reveals the Box to be New Southgate, close to where we lived.
Other than that I have no idea. Any thoughts on dates or the loco (the number is too small to read).


Andy

[Flamingo]

Yes that's New Southgate. I went there sometimes to photograph from that footbridge but it wasn't my favourite spot.

Using image enlargement in Photoshop the engine's number on the buffer beam looks like 275-? but unfortunately I could not get the last digit quite sharp enough.

If I had to put money on it, going by the type of tender and all the coaches with roof destination boards, I'd say it was none other than 2750 Papyrus possibly on the down Scotsman. the lighting is from the right rear of the picture which fits with that hypothesis.

As for date, it would be pre-war and probably pre A4s taking over on that train.

[redtoon1892]

Nice atmospheric pic, could be repaired with Photoshop.

[giner]

Thanks Andy, great shot. I have to agree with Flamingo. New Southgate wasn't a favourite spot for me, either. Much preferred Oakleigh Park, t'other side of Southgate Tunnel. Also Hadley Wood, Greenwood Box area.

[61070]

Andy - A lovely photograph which I think really captures the thrill of the steam expresses of the 1920s/30s. The location, framing and lighting are just right, and the picture is captured at the perfect instant. For me, the view through the signalbox (sihouetting, I think, the signalman's arm reaching up to the block shelf) and the figure standing on the right under the footbridge watching the train pass through make the shot. Do you have any more like this???

My advice with the print, if you want to get rid of the blemishes and end up with a copy that you could frame for your wall, would be to put it in a clear sleeve and get some advice from a conservator at your local archive office - they are usually very helpful. As redtoon says, the best way to 'remove' the major crease damage, which is quite localised, is by digital editing which can be done by someone who's got some experience with the appropriate tools in Photoshop, but you also have a lot of dirt and minor scratches across the whole surface of the print which may best be minimised first by very careful physical cleaning, so that the print is as clear as it can be before beginning the digital stuff. There are some quite effective ways of cleaning old prints, but it's always best to get the advice first hand. I'm reluctant to recommend anything here in case it goes wrong and you do more damage.

ps have you checked to see if the negative has survived and is in good condition? It's possible to get very good scans from negatives with the right equipment (negative adapters on flatbed scanners can be OK, but proper negative/transparency scanners are usually much better).

[2562]

Thanks for the answers. From the suggested date I doubt my father did take it, he would have been just a lad but he did have an interst in both the railway and photography from an early age.

My own haunt was the pedestrian bridge between the New Southgate tunnel and Oakleigh Park, although that was in the days of Deltics and DMUs

I may try and clean the photo up - the scan was taken quickly and I'm no stranger to photoshop. I've many rolls of film and packs of slides to search through, so I may turn up a few more photos of interest.

Andy.

[StevieG]

There was an unusual feature (well for the LNER's London area, anyway) at New Southgate, which I think may just be visible in 2562's photo at the start of this thread.

In the Wallside siding, alongside and close to, the Down Slow, there was a wagon turnplate/table [possibly just visible over to the right in the photo] by which vehicles could be turned 90 degrees and passed across the public footpath and through the adjacent wall [archway definitely visible, by the footbridge] to/from the Friern Barnet Hospital (asylum)'s siding(s).
As wagons that were turned out of line with the main siding became foul of the Down Slow, the turnplate was unbolted by lever 1 in the signal box, which in turn would have locked the two home signals (& possibly the DF-DS points) which led to the Down Slow at this point.
Unfortunately I have no idea when this working ceased, the turnplate was secured out of use, or when it was removed, so this is of no help in dating the photo.

Finally, note the two tall telegraph poles, a feature of railway scenes then so normal as to be virtually unnoticeable, but now, according to observations/posts of recent months in the forum of website "The Signal Box" http://www.signalbox.org/forum/index.php, almost eradicated from our rail network.


As a comparison, may I post here a scanned Kodachrome colour slide photo of my own (not a patch for quality compared with 'lifeboat1721's of Tornado at Carlisle I'm afraid) of a similar view, from around 1968 (see photo 'File comment' for main details).
Compared to 2562's photo, the public footbridge had gone, No.17 Up Fast 'Second Home' signal's co-acting somersault arms had been replaced by upper quadrants, the archway in the hospital wall was still prominent, and the Down Fast signal bracket in the background of the older shot, plus its Down Slow companion (not visible) had been replaced by a single BR(ER) 3-doll bracket signal (also virtually invisible, behind 4472's exhaust).

Regarding the maroon stock in the Wallside Siding, this might have arrived that day and just be awaiting its return working : I particularly recall an annual event of these times - some sort of National School Hockey final, played at Wembley, for which specials ran from the north to such as New Barnet and New Southgate, and from where the schoolgirl hoards were then taken round to Wembley by road coach. Southgate's train was then run-round, shunted across, then propelled back into 'The Wallside', and formed the later return working of the same trip.
But if I am confusing separate Saturdays, the set seen here may not be that one at all, but merely an out-stable from Bounds Green, possibly for several days.

[Flamingo]

Re the picture of 4472 at New Southgate on the 'Norfolk Enterprise', I photographed the same train a few miles further north near Brookmans Park and recorded the date as 30 April 1967. 4472 made several appearances during its two tender period. I have it on another special between the tunnels at Welwyn.