Urban Myths and the GCR

[52D]

Ive had an interesting discussion on another site regarding the Berne loading gauge and the GCR. Apparently the GCR was built before the Berne Gauge was established. One interesting point came up from another member was that when the London Extension was built it was engineered for high speed running with generous curves and easy gradients and the thing that this other member thought could be an urban myth there were no level crossings between Aylesbury and Beighton-------Please comment.

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Myth or not,thats what I heard, no level crossings (never seen a picture of one) and built to a larger gauge, Sir Edward Watkins was before his time, pity they shut the GCR
manna

[61070]

I'm originally from Leicester and reasonably familiar with the GC between Nottingham and Rugby - less so north and south of those places. My earliest spotting experiences were at St Margaret's Pastures - waving at, and getting a 'toot' from, the crews of 9Fs on 'windcutter' coal trains. Happy days!

Certainly the GC was very expensively engineered through Leicester - more than a mile of engineering brick viaduct including many crossings of river, canal and roads, some at a considerable skew, and also supporting the sizeable station. I'm sure that there were no level crosings on the Nottingham - Rugby stretch, and no 'proper' junctions with other lines either - just a few connecting spurs of various dates and periods of use. A good proportion of the line between Nottingham and Aylesbury was on a gradient of 1 in 176 (i.e. 30 feet per mile) one way or the other, including an unbroken stretch of 7 miles south of Leicester, with no steeper sections of any great length. Hardly any of the route was level - mostly short lengths through principal stations and a mile for the water troughs at Charwelton.

The Leicester Civic Society is currently battling to prevent the demolition of one of the last substantial remnants in the city of this mighty late Victorian railway adventure - a lattice girder bridge which spans the River Soar and some local roads:

http://www.leicestercivicsociety.org.uk ... sp?item=14

[StevieG]

G'Day Gents
Myth or not,thats what I heard, no level crossings (never seen a picture of one) and built to a larger gauge, Sir Edward Watkins was before his time, pity they shut the GCR
manna

Have I read somewhere a long time ago that Sir Edgar once had the aspiration of through running to France* ? - Could this have been a factor in the Extension's superior engineering?
No doubt the facts are a matter of record somewhere ......

* - (Perhaps on a par for grandness with the barely realised great 'tower of Wembley')

[52D]

Stevie thanks for contribution the GCR London extension continues to intrigue me.

[Bill Bedford]

G'Day Gents
Myth or not,thats what I heard, no level crossings (never seen a picture of one) and built to a larger gauge, Sir Edward Watkins was before his time, pity they shut the GCR
manna

Have I read somewhere a long time ago that Sir Edgar once had the aspiration of through running to France* ? - Could this have been a factor in the Extension's superior engineering?
No doubt the facts are a matter of record somewhere ......

The GCR had a slightly bigger loading gauge than other railways, which is why GC locos had to be cut down to run on the GE and in Scotland, but the London Branch had the same loading gauge as the MS&L main line between Manchester and Grimsby.

[Solario]

Have I read somewhere a long time ago that Sir Edgar once had the aspiration of through running to France* ?

Take a look at the GCR write up on this site!

http://www.lner.info/co/GCR/history.shtml

Excavations for a Channel Tunnel actually commenced in late Victorian times and they were of use to engineers planning the tunnel subsequently built.

[wehf100]

I have heard a lot of conflicting info on the GCR's loading gauge- and nothing seems particularly well referenced. The argument in favour of the 'Berne' gauge is obvious (assuming we ignore the fact the phrase itself relates to a 1913 convention in that city) viz, work started on the new extension in 1895- and the agreement on the continent dictating an adoption of French loading gauge dated to 1891.

However. whilst the Channel tunnel idea was probably something Watkin carried with him to the very end, but it was a scheme that had died the death well before the London Extension was realistically drafted. It doesnt add up.

But has anyone actually read the GCR's own Board/committee minutes? I can't actually be bothered to do so myself, as I am always doing the 'day job' when I'm at Kew archives. The official London Extension loading gauge is also reportedly drawn in the Inst. of Civil Engineers, which if someone has a few quid to spare can be downloaded here http://www.icevirtuallibrary.com/

As an interesting aside, I just 'googled' 'GCR London Extension' and a lot of it talked about Berne loading gauges. I hope if anyone finds this reply by way of google realises that I committed the same sin as many others by writing on the matter based on nothing more than interpretation of previous work!

to the archives...!

Will

[Bill Bedford]

I have heard a lot of conflicting info on the GCR's loading gauge- and nothing seems particularly well referenced. The argument in favour of the 'Berne' gauge is obvious (assuming we ignore the fact the phrase itself relates to a 1913 convention in that city) viz, work started on the new extension in 1895- and the agreement on the continent dictating an adoption of French loading gauge dated to 1891.

But has anyone actually read the GCR's own Board/committee minutes? I can't actually be bothered to do so myself, as I am always doing the 'day job' when I'm at Kew archives. The official London Extension loading gauge is also reportedly drawn in the Inst. of Civil Engineers, which if someone has a few quid to spare can be downloaded here http://www.icevirtuallibrary.com/

This is the loading gauge the LE was built to. It comes ultimately from a book of diagrams that was drawn to specify the minor works on the LE. This book is now at Kew and amost all the structure diagrams in Dow and other works can be trace back to it.

Perhaps those who wish to perpetuate the Berne Loading Gauge myth would like to say how this relates to continental loading gauges.

[52D]

Thanks for that Bill