Non-prototypical East Anglian layout.

[Matt D]

My father, after years of procrastination and with retirement just around the corner, has finally decided to build his long talked-of model railway. He was a draughtsman and electrical engineer by trade, and I have no worries about his abilities to lay track and wire up power, points, locomotives, signals, lights and anything else required. Ditto the baseboards and scenic foundations - he built some podiums for a theatre group my sister was a member of which I have no doubt will last longer than anyone who has used them. He could proabably have a tidy sideline in retirement making baseboards for other people!

The one thing he lacks knowledge in, though, is rolling stock. I have volunteered to collaborate with him on this, but my last railway modelling efforts were back in my teens and they concentrated more on modern image. There are a few areas that I would therefore like to ask advice form the members of the board about:

1.) Layout

The layout itself is to be a continuous loop in OO and set in a fictional area of East Anglia in the second half of the 1950s, thereby allowing steam and the occasional diesel to co-exist. The setting will be hampered by the fact that the area available is only approximately 6'x4', which causes all manner of issues regarding the length of potential platform length and the resulting length of train it is possible to run. There is also an issue with the way the layout will be mounted, since it will be surrounded by walls on three sides, meaning that the 'display' side and the 'operating' side will both be on the 'front' edge, if you see what I mean.

This means that there is no way of having a hidden fiddle yard at the 'back' of the layout, as there will be no way of getting to it or seeing what train you are picking out to run next. I have been thinking about this and was wondering if it would be possible in the space available to have some kind of ramp system leading down to a second loop on a lower level? This way would allow the main focal points of the layout and a fiddle yard to both be at the 'front' of the layout at the same time, with the former above the latter. I realise that the layout would have to be higher than is probably normal, to allow for comfortable access to the lower level, that there would probably have to be some fairly elaborate carpentry around the ramps and that the confined space might mean that the ramps would have to be quite steep, but if anyone has any ideas on whether this might be possible or any experience of operating a split-level layout in this way then I would be interested in hearing them. Train lengths would probably be quite short, for the reasons already explained, and the ramps themselves could be hidden behind a scenic device, as fiddle yards often are. I have seen examples of layouts that have used ramps to lower levels for fiddle yard access, but these have all been considerably bigger, and I am just wondering if it is theoretically possible in such a small space.

The visible part of the layout will probably include a rural station and a small goods yard, possibly with a cattle dock or coal drops, depending on what there is space for. My parents live in Bury St. Edmunds, and the local station would be a lovely project for someone if the old links to Thetford and Sudbury and the former 'through express' lines between the platforms could be included, but it is probably too big for the space available. Something representative of this area would probably be ideal, though, since the position on the Ipswich-Cambridge line would allow dual track running and a steady flow of both passenger and freight traffic, although I am am guessing there would not have been huge Pacifics running enormous 12-car trains, which we have room to run or store. Which brings us to...

2.) Stock

I have started looking for likely locomotives, beginning with a rather charming 1960 copy of The Observer's Book of Railway Locomotives of Britain, which I picked up off eBay for a few quid, and in which a previous owner has occasionally noted fifty-year-old train numbers! This may not be very detailed, and does not go very deeply into allocations, but it does at least suggest which parts of the country different engines usually lived in. From it I have come up with a list of possible available locomotives:

Y1/Y3 Sentinel (Nu-Cast kit)
J67/J69 0-6-0T(Connoisseur, SE Finecast, DJH, London Road)
J68 0-6-0T (Connoiseur, London Road)
J94 0-6-0T (Hornby)
J15 0-6-0 (Alan Gibson, Nu-Cast)
J17 0-6-0 (PDK, Crownline)
J19 0-6-0 (PDK)
J20 0-6-0 (PDK, Crownline, McGowan)
J39 0-6-0 (Bachmann)
N7 0-6-2T (Various)
2-MT 2-6-0 (Bachmann)
4-MT 2-6-0 (Bachmann)
K1/K2 2-6-0 (Nu-Cast, London Road)
B1 4-6-0 (Bachmann)
B17 4-6-0 (Hornby)
WD/O7 2-8-0 (Bachmann)

I have culled this list partly from the aforementioned Observer book and partly from other sources, but my knowledge is obviously limited and if anyone has any suggestions for engines that are not on the list, or for ones which are on the list and shouldn't be, I would be glad of the guidance. I am not suggesting gathering examples of all of the above, since it will only be a small layout and we could not possibly use all of them. The small dimensions would also favour the smaller locos on the list, although there may be room for one or more of the larger ones.

I have also never kit-built a locomotive before, and would appreciate any advice on this. If anyone has any experience of building any of the above kits, or has any particular recommendations for a beginner, then I would be equally pleased to hear them. I am considering starting with a Sentinel, partly because I like them and partly because I am hoping that the blocky shape and the fact that it runs on a motor bogie rather than a kit-built chassis will make it easier for a first project.

Of course, it is entirely possible to create an excuse to run pretty much anything on your own layout, whether there is precedent or not. I would very much like to think up a reason to run a very much out of area ex-LMS Bachmann 'Super D' 0-8-0, just because I happen to like them. An excuse will also have to be found to run the Hornby Flying Scotsman in LNER Apple Green that Mum bought Dad for his birthday! So close, but neither of us had the heart to tell her...

Finally, does anybody know of any books which depict ex-Private Owner wagons in early BR use? I have read about the wartime pooling of Private Owner coal wagons and their subsequent nationalisation and have heard that some lasted up until withdrawal in the early 1960 still carrying their original signage, albeit heavily weathered and with the addition of BR 'Pxxxxxxx' numbers. One detail I had considered adding to the layout was a small rake of ex-PO wagons standing in a tucked away siding, forlornly waiting for their last trip to the breaker's yard. I thought of this as I have bought a few 2nd hand PO wagons from eBay in order to practice my weathering skills before the layout is built, and it would be a shame to waste them!

I am seeing my Dad next weekend and he has promised to take me out for a beer to discuss 'the layout'. I just hope I have enough ideas by then to justify the tab!

Thanks for reading.

[52D]

For East Anglian modelling look no further than the Thurston layout, one of the best ive seen. I have no links or info but it was on you tube and has been mentioned on this forum. I seem to remember it being an Ely model railway club layout but could be wrong.

[Matt D]

Hi,

I have seen the Youtube videos of 'Thurston'. It is an impressive layout and I know the area it is based on well, since it is only a few miles outside Bury St. Edmunds. The Fox and Hounds pub now has a signwritten vintage Morris Minor van that they use to collect kegs of beer from the Greene King brewery, and which would not look out of place in either a modern or steam layout.

According to the Ely & District Model Railway Club here (http://www.app-ltd.com/elymrc/thurston_ ... istory.htm), Bury St. Edmunds had its own shed until 1959, which had its own allocation of engines. The fact that it closed in 1959 means that it obviously does not show up in my book. But to the list of possible locomotives I noted before, I can now add:

E4 2-4-0 (Nu-Cast, Allan Gibson)
D16/3 4-4-0 (Crownline, Little Engines, PDK)
F6 2-4-2T (Falcon Brassworks, Allan Gibson)

All of which were withdrawn between 1958 and 1960.

I knew there was an engine shed in Bury, (at the top of Station Hill,) but I had thought that it had been closed much later than 1959. In fact, I was sure that it remained a depot for diesel engines within my lifetime, (I was born in 1976,) but it seems that I was wrong. It was subsequently turned into a roller skating rink, then a fitness studio and is currently being used a furniture showroom.

[52D]

I know exactly where you are coming from having developed a strange liking for greene king ipa although its a million miles from my usual brews. i still think this layout is the best model i have seen to represent East Anglia

[Matt D]

Ha ha! I'll pass that on. I used to run Greene King's post room when I worked there.

I agree with you regarding Thurston. Unfortunately it's a bit bigger than the area we have available. There is a lot of interesting stock on the layout and some useful information on the Ely MRC website, though.

[jwealleans]

If you want any more information on the Thurston stock or layout, please ask. I wasn't a club member when the layout was built, but much of the stock is mine and quite a bit can be seen on my Workbench thread if you go back through it. The videos on YouTube are available on DVD if you see us at a show.

on-my-workbench-before-the-grouping-t937.html

There's also a thread on Thurston locomotives here:

thurston-t1508s250.html

You could also do worse than to find two fairly recent editions of Model Rail which featured small East Anglian layouts - I'll have a flick back through my copies and try to locate them. One was Jas Millham's (? - apologies if I've misremembered that) layout - may have been called Yaxley - which has a very ingenious lift between levels and is, IIRC, three layouts each above the other.

Ramps or spirals take up a great deal of space if they're not to be so steep as to be unusable.

[PaulG]

Matt

have a look at:

http://www.gersociety.org.uk/ then click the "Modelling" tab and open the "4mm modelling pdf" document.

The document is over 40-pages in size giving information for the East Anglia modeller.

Regards
Paul

[jwealleans]

Seconded. Sometimes a bit out of date but an absolutely invaluable resource.

The GERS also sell drawings through their site and at shows (I bought a CDs worth at our show this year) which are very useful.

[Matt D]

Cheers for all that, people. I will have a look and gather what information I can.

[badwolf]

The locoshed at Bury st Eds was almost opposite the signalbox ( Bury Yard ) the building where roller skating took place is the old goods shed, the loco shed was demolished in the early sixties, the turntable was at the Eastern Way end of the yard and was too small for any other than a small GE loco, big locos were therefore sent to turn on the Newmarket triangle.

[badwolf]

BTW I used to be a relief signalman in the area for many years so know the place well