A Couple of GC Questions

[Pyewipe Junction]

First a bit of a daft one. Were steam locos still routinely allowed through the Woodhead tunnels after electrification?

Second, does anyone know the kinds of jobs that Gorton locos worked? Looking at Gorton's allocation after electrification and dieselisation of local services, it seems its principal duties were (a) fast freight (B1s, K3s and later Crabs), (b) heavy freight (O4s and later WDs and 8Fs) and (c) local freight (J11s, J39s and later a variety of elderly LMS locos).

I assume these duties were over ex LNER/Chesire Lines routes (unless it also took over the duties of Belle Vue (26G) closed in 1956, which was virtually next door). If steam wasn't allowed through Woodhead after 1954, where would they have worked?

[stembok]

As I recall steam was barred from working through the Woodhead Tunnel after electrification. Occasionally, steam locos,perhaps on their way to Gorton, would be towed 'dead' through the tunnel. On 18/4/1964 4472 'Flying Scotsman', on a railtour, was piloted through by an electric locomotive with the fire suitably damped down. It was not allowed to put on steam through the tunnel.

[9E]

As stembok has noted steam was banned through the Tunnel, although steam locos being dragged to Gorton Works were still common prior to the works closure.

As you suggested much of Gorton's work consisted of freight over the CLC particularly to the Northwich area or Partington/Glazebrook via Skelton Jct, although also to Trafford Park via the (ex GC) Fallowfield loop and the Liverpool area via either route. This explains the number of 04s and some of the work for the J11s,J39s etc.

Work for the feight locos, particularly the 0-6-0s, also included transfer freights to the former L&Y/LNWR lines (e.g. to Ordsall from the Guide Bridge area yards), shunting the yards on the Fallowfield loop as far as Wilbraham Rd, the yards on the lines out to Hayfield and Macclesfield Central, and freight on some of the non-electrified remnants of the MSW such as the Waterside branch (this left the Woodhead route at Old Dinting and generally provided work for a J11).

Whilst the B1s and K3s may still have had some express freight turns to the Liverpool area (not sure post-electrification) they definitely saw use on the short Manchester Central-Guide Bridge section hauling the Liverpool to Hull and Harwich services (plus a few other destinations in the summer months). The short distances involved resulted in A5s and later Stanier/Fairburn 2-6-4Ts being used as well. In addition Gorton handled a fair amount of excursion work (e.g. to Southport etc) for which the K3s were often first choice.

Until dieselisation in the late 50s Gorton also had a fair number of local passenger workings. C13s and later C14s, A5s and L1s worked London Road to Hayfield and Macclesfield services over the old GC & Midland Joint line via Romiley. J11s tended to fill in for the passenger tanks at weekends.

When Belle Vue closed its locos and (I assume) men were split between Newton Heath and Gorton. The ex-LMS locos Gorton gained at that point would have been used to work at Ashton Road and Ancoats Goods as well as working freights from there down to Gowhole Yard between New Mills and Buxworth. Gorton also provided the Gowhole pilots. I assume that Newton Heath took over responsibility for the transfer freights from Gowhole to the L&Y and also the fitted freight work, e.g. to Carlisle, once handled by Belle Vue, but can't be sure.

[bw1165]

9E covers the detail better than I could, but it's perhaps worth a mention that a few (latterly a very few) local passenger trains on the Marple line remained steam hauled up until about 1963/4. I believe this was because they loaded up to more passengers than could be acommodated in the maximum number of DMU multiples. (8 car?)

I remember B1 Steinbok being used on these, as well as sundry ex LMS types.

[Boris]

Definitely steam was banned through Woodhead after electrification.
I was fireman on the ballast train at Dunford the Sunday the tracks were slewed from the old to the new.
We were more of less locked in the siding for the whole day until the work was complete at which time we had to draw forwards to get the waggons out of the siding and our loco a J11 actuall went about 50 yards into the new tunnel.
As i had just pushed the fire from under the door and put a couple of rounds on there was quite a bit of smoke
There were a few with cameras taking photo's, I fully expected to be in front of Mr Winters our shed master next day but it didn't happen.
I have asked on several sites including this if anyone has ever seen one of these photo's without success.
Anyone reading this ever?????

[9E]

Sorry Boris

I have never seen a photo of this. Most of the views in print are of the actual tunnel opening with the last steam passenger train through the old tunnels, the first passenger through the new and one or two of freights passing on the lines out of the old tunnels. There are also one or two with EM1s outside the new tunnel at the Woodhead end before it opened, but sadly none of your Pom-Pom.

By the way did you ever fire any of the B7s? The class must still have been complete when you started at Darnall.

[Boris]

Yes I did If I remember right it was 1361.

I lived at Kiveton Park, if I finished at Darnall after 1030 I had to beg a ride home on a goods train.
The signalman at Darnal West used to stop one for me.

This night I got on and the fireman, a Retford man said I could fire it, a chance I jumped at as I was still only a passed cleaner and had only one or two short main line runs under my belt.

Going up the Waleswood bank I managed to make a hash of it as they had a tendancy to snatch coal off the shovel and I finished up with a heap under the face plate and very little under the door where it was supposed to be piled deep.

We managed to top the hill but from Kiveton Bridge to the old station he was busy dragging it all back again.

I never forgot from then how to fire a B7.