Concrete Brake Vans

[richard]

The club has had some boxes they've been sorting - mainly "Trains" and "Model Railroader", but a lone issue of Railway Modeller has made it to me.
Dated October 1975, it is interesting to see what the hobby was doing in those days. Unfortunately the black & white photos don't do the models justice.

Probably the most interesting is a single page article (pg.311) entitled "LNER Concrete brake van".

Two photos and a plan are included. The plan has been reduced from 1in:1ft to 4mm:ft, but I might try to scan it.

Two such brake vans were built and the drawings are dated 1929. The idea was to use concrete for the body so that ballast was not required. Bodies were cast on underframes of a standard design from K. Holst & Co. Numbers and letters were cast into the body sides.
No. 158355 is pictured. There's no indication of the other van's number.

They cost more than a standard timber brake van, and they were unpopular with crews due to the cold and condensation. Hence no more were built.

Concrete can have a long life, so the author suggests that they might be in use as grounded bodies somewhere.
I've looked in Tatlow and he has no mention of them.

None of you would have believed me if I'd posted this yesterday!

Richard

[PaulG]

Peter Tatlow mentions the brake vans in passing on page 165 of his book.

The LNER took a number of photos at Temple Mills, Stratford which I've seen and these are now at the NRM.

As you say the crews - not unreasonably - didn't like the vehicles.

Details have been published on the GERS E-Group.

Regards

Paul

[richard]

Ah yes I missed it: A succint one line mention!

Are there any records as to what happened to them?

As I only have the one issue of RM I can't see if anyone wrote in with answers to the author's question about where they went.

Richard

[PaulG]

Dear Richard

Mike Bootman of the GERS is in the process of putting together an article for our Journal.

I asked for comments and his reply is as follows:

"Contemporary articles in Concrete magazine and Railway Magazine refer only to one van and all the photos I have seen have the same number (158355).

A follow up letter from John Sykes of the LNER Study group appeared on Page 377 of the Railway Modeller in December 1975. Mr Sykes states that he is only aware of one such vehicle being constructed and quotes from the 1929 Annual Report of the LNER Central Wagon Control Office, as follows:
'The 20-ton concrete brake van has been constructed as an experiment. The entire body of this vehicle with the exception of the window frames, doors, side duckets and interior fittings is of ferro-concrete.
The running of the van is excellent but the following objections have been raised by guards who have used the van:-
1) It is damp, cold and draughty.
2) The use of concrete is injurious to health and tends to cause rheumatism and if such vans were in general use a good deal of time would be lost by guards through illness.
3) In case of accident the danger and risk to life would be increased as the reinforced concrete could not be cut away with an axe and saw and if the guard got fastened in or underneath the van, extrication would be much more difficult than in the case of a wooden van. The points made in connection with draughts and are having the attention of the Chief Mechanical Engineer.'

Martin Long quoted a talk by Dr Ian C Allen at Ipswich, in which the latter reportedly said he found the brake van at Laxfield, apparently being used as a store. Since the Middie has been pretty well researched and documented over time I would have expected to find some independent confirmation to exist."

I hope the above helps.

regards

Paul

[richard]

Thanks Paul - an interesting and unusual experiment!

Richard

[L&Y Man]

Thanks Paul - an interesting and unusual experiment!

Richard

There was also a brief article in Railway Magazine (February 1930, p106) which mentions only one vehicle being built. The article includes a photograph of it unpainted.

[2512silverfox]

The LNER publicity and works photos suggest that the concrete brake van was unpainted in service since the running number etc was cast into the concrete and it was photographed in this state with underframe etc finished as normal..

The reports give variously one and two as being built, but only one was allocated a running number.

[hq1hitchin]

What an interesting topic. Anyone out there oblige with a drawing or a picture on here, please? I read about it in the old FAS Brown book on HNG when I was still at school and think that HNG had it attached to the rear of an express and rode in it from KX to Hitchin at speed. Incidentally, about that time, I remember seeing a collier called 'Cretefield' in use as a coal hulk in Waterford, Ireland. That too was built out of concrete but dated back to the Great War. I believe it was eventually scuttled and used as part of the foundations for the (still rail served) Belview Terminal on the River Suir.

[richard]

Oracle had/sponsored a concrete hulled racing yacht - I think this would have been the early 1990s.

As for the brake van, I'll have to dig the article up. I suspect the images/etc will be copyrighted but we'll see.
From what I remember, it looked similar to the standard 10ft wb brakevan.


Richard

[jwealleans]

Mike Bootman posts on RMWeb - not sure whether he is on here as well or not. I'll ask him what issue of the GERSJ the article was published in.

[52D]

Concrete has been used for building ships and Barges in particular. I believe some concrete barges were used in the invasion of Normandy.

[Bryan]

Used in the Mulberry harbours and also more recently in building immersed tunnels across rivers such as the Conway in Wales and I think the new Tyne tunnel may be of this type.

[52D]

I had forgotten about the new Tyne tunnel and can confirm it is to be floated into place then sunk.

[60041]

Concrete has been used for building ships and Barges in particular. I believe some concrete barges were used in the invasion of Normandy.

Some concrete ships were built at Blyth during WW1.
There is a wreck on the beach near Whitby and I believe that it is the MV Creteblock, I do not know if it was one of the Blyth ships or not; all the Blyth ships were named "Crete......", but I think that ships built elsewhere also had "Crete" names.

[61070]

Here's the Cretehauser, still high and (nearly) dry on the Wear in Sunderland at low tide. Been there for many years.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... er_HDR.jpg