Indicator on Grantham Station up platform - what was it for?

[61070]

Here are three more early 1960s Grantham pictures to enjoy - and another query.

This time I'm looking at the indicator box (as I'll describe it until corrected) which is seen suspended from the end of the platform awning just to the right of 60120. It appears to be able to show a letter 'S' (in both directions?) when illuminated from inside. There is also an electric bell mounted on the outside of the canopy that would seem to be associated with the indicator. My first question is what was this indicator for? Who activated it, when, and for whose benefit? Was the bell part of the same system?

The photo of 60120 was taken in summer 1962, the photo of the group of station staff on 5th September 1963, when the indicator and bell are still in place (see detail), but by 3rd October 1963, when the photo of D0260 was taken, the bell had gone (leaving evidence of its presence on the newly painted woodwork - see detail), and so had the indicator, as evidenced by the four empty bolt holes where its suspension rods had been fixed (there's evidence of its disappearance in other photos too, but the number of attachments is limited to 5). So my second question is, what had happened to make this system redundant? It's possible that it hadn't been used for years, of course.

I've asked a number of folk about this but no one seems certain.

[52A]

It is possibly a start bell, they were at a number of locations, including Newcastle and York. They were used to signal the Driver to start after all platform duties were complete, the letter "S" illuminated and the bell rang and off you went into the night - or day. It appears to be an old design that may have been replaced by something more modern at Grantham, perhaps someone else can answer that one.

The photo shows one of the Newcastle ones, not very good but the best I can do!

[hq1hitchin]

It is possibly a start bell, they were at a number of locations, including Newcastle and York. They were used to signal the Driver to start after all platform duties were complete, the letter "S" illuminated and the bell rang and off you went into the night - or day. It appears to be an old design that may have been replaced by something more modern at Grantham, perhaps someone else can answer that one.

Yes, 52A that's what they are - only on the Up Platform at Grantham although similar ones existed at Kings X (Plats 5,6,7,8 and 10) and Peterborough North (Plats 2 and 3). They were operated by the guard when given the 'right away' by the Station Inspector dealing with the despatch of the train (LNE Sectional Appendix 1947 refers)

[stembok]

Some places also had a bell push to alert the signalbox that a train was ready for the road. At Newcastle Central of course with often busy crowded platforms and the curves on the platforms restricting people's view, bell signals would be useful. Re: Grantham I can't quite make it out, but has there been any re-signalling -colour lights - in the time between the photos of 60120 and D0280? If so, might this have affected matters?

[Bryan]

Just a thought.
With the presence of the sleeper crossing, would it have been a warning signal of a train approaching? Especially a nonstop.

[61070]

Thanks again to everyone for your contributions on this. I'm very grateful for your descriptions of exactly how the system operated, 52A, hq1 and stembok. Another few lines of detail to add to my catalogue...

So far as signalling alterations between summer 1962 and autumn 1963 are concerned, during our visits from August 1961 onward I can only remember the up platform end (Yard Box) starting signal being a colour light (single lens type) - as shown on the attached picture taken on 1st August 1963 (in which the approaching train is a down Pullman hauled by D241). It had a banner repeater (two discs) towards the north end of the up platform.

I think, from older dated photos I've seen, that this colour light signal had replaced its semaphore predecessor (which had co-acting arms at a height, for sighting over the station buildings and footbridge) a few years before, in the late 1950s. Someone may know the date more accurately. I've been told that the down platform starting signal, at Grantham North box, had been a colour light since 1937.

Thanks for your suggestion, Bryan, that the bell could have been rung (presumably by one of the signalmen) as a warning for the boarded crossing - which I remember being continually in use by the station staff. The indicator/bell were very close to the crossing, as the attached photo (15th August 1963) showing WD 90304 at that point demonstrates, but if this was the case I'd be puzzled about the purpose of the illuminated 'S' indicator - which would seem superfluous unless I'm missing something. Also I can't remember hearing a bell during our visits - it would have had to be sounded very frequently.

[hq1hitchin]

Just a thought.
With the presence of the sleeper crossing, would it have been a warning signal of a train approaching? Especially a nonstop.

At places like Hatfield and Hitchin, which also had barrow crossings, the warning system for these consisted of cabinets of large indicator dials, one dial for each running line to be crossed, with needles which showed the state of the line e.g. 'Train Approaching'. These would have been worked off track circuits and the cabinets were illuminated at night and I presume something similar existed at Grantham. These crossings were only supposed to be used by staff but if a wheelchair passenger wanted to join a down service at Hatfield, say, if was the only way to get them across to the down platform.
In respect of 'ringing out' buttons, as some people would have called them, they were generally pressed two or so minutes before train departure time by the person about to start the train and would alert the signalman to the fact that a train was staffed and ready to go. He would then set the road and clear the signal if he could. Slightly more elaborate at places like Crewe, where you pressed the relevant button to show where the train was going - e.g Chester, Liverpool or Manchester line and a sign lit up in the North Junction Box. No doubt other big stations would had something similar.

[silver fox]

Yep, while awaiting UoSA yesterday I watched the Leeds (Harrogate) Sheffield Train on Platform 10, and the gaurd was pressing the button, never seen them actually pressed before!

[ajax103]

The indicators are known as TRTS or Train Ready to Start which tells the signalman that the train has a driver and is ready to leave - all platforms at Peterborough have this.

The same at Kings Cross as well, all 11 platforms!

It's a good idea as it's a tad silly setting the route then finding out there's no driver for the service the having to wait for the route to be released which takes 2 minutes.

[52D]

Im sure the bells ringing at Alnmouth heralded an imminent arrival.

[hq1hitchin]

Im sure the bells ringing at Alnmouth heralded an imminent arrival.

Could well have been, 52D, certainly there was an electric bell at Fratton until fairly recent times on the up which sounded automatically as a train approached whilst at Hitchin, the signalman in Hitchin Yard box operated a bell to herald the arrival of a train in the up platform. Are there any places where this still happens, I wonder - or has it all been lost in a blizzard of dot matrix?

[Solario]

There is (or certainly was) what I think we called a "Right Away" plunger on Pickering platform 1; when operated, it illuminated an "S" on the colour light starter signal, which would already be off. This was for the benefit of the driver rather than the signalman. I found it very handy, in my guarding days; when you had a long train the loco would not be visible until you were a considerable distance up the curved platform so the "Right Away" could be comfortably indicated without having to run back to the brake.

[third-rail]

Im sure the bells ringing at Alnmouth heralded an imminent arrival.

Could well have been, 52D, certainly there was an electric bell at Fratton until fairly recent times on the up which sounded automatically as a train approached whilst at Hitchin, the signalman in Hitchin Yard box operated a bell to herald the arrival of a train in the up platform. Are there any places where this still happens, I wonder - or has it all been lost in a blizzard of dot matrix?

south gosforth station, [pre colour light days ]also used a bell code to indicate a up or down stopping train,as a lot of ecs would pass through the station.

[CLOXTON]

Hi all, with reference to the photo showing the indicator and bell. I live in the Grantham area for most of my life and with my father working on the railways in the area for 40 years and knowing a few people who worked at grantham in the 1940s and 50s who remember the indicator and bell. It was used for two operations, first when there was engine changes at the south end , the engine driver could not allways see the gaurds flag when getting ready to go if the loco was right hand drive, it was the fireman duty to tell the driver the all clear so the fitted the indicator, as at times smoke could block the view of the whole train and secondly the bell was sounded for trains travelling southbound as when staff used the sleeper crossing the driver did not see the crossing until he was in the platform straight,as it was said earlier, when colour light signalling was introduced in 1937 track circuit between grantham north and barkston south, trains would be travelling fast thorough the station area, the bell sounded when the train was about 2miles away so giving time for staff to clear the crossing in time . It still sounded on the down line when the train was passing little ponton advance starter where track circuit started for Grantham south signal box. All equipment was removed when all grantham`s resignalling in the 1970s Hope this helps people brian

[61070]

Cloxton - thanks very much for explaining the dual purpose of the bell and indicator lamp. I hadn't realised that the bell was activated by trains approaching from north and south, through track circuits, to provide a warning to station staff using the two crossings. I'm compiling detailed captions for each of my father's photos taken at Grantham and it's great to have this query so authoritatively answered. Was your father in the S&T Dept?