This forum is for the discussion of the infrastructure of the LNER and its constituent companies. Topics include signalling, signal boxes, track layout, bridges, stations, etc.
Can anyone help me to understand the semaphore signals that were located at the southern end of the platforms at Hertford North?
From the photo's I seen, the 'Up' line had a junction post, with - I assume - the lower left arm controlling access into the sidings. That bit I think I understand.
But it's the 'Down' and 'Bay' platforms that I can't work out. Each platform had a post of three miniature semaphores. My assumption is that these indicated which of the storage sidings a train was cleared into, but what cleared a train to depart for a return trip to London from either of these platforms?
Sounds like the photos you've seen Oliver Browne date from when the signalling for the branch to Welwyn Garden City ( originally Hatfield via WGC ) , via Hertingfordbury and Cole Green, was still in place (omitted from your diagram) ; that line initially turned left (SE) from the other lines near the signal box then continued south, to the left (as things are orientated in your incomplete track diagram) of the Up sidings whilst falling to a lower level, before curving to the right, passing under the main line's viaduct, and continuing approximately west in the direction of HWGC.
The Up line signal's L/H main arm applied for going onto the WGC branch : There was a miniature arm way down on the bracket signal's main post for moves into any of the sidings.
The Up direction sets of three miniatures for the Down line and Bay were for routes to the same three destinations as the Up line bracket signal's arms; but with both, it was very odd that the top and bottom arms, for running moves to either the Branch or the Up Main, were miniatures rather than full-size arms.
Possibly it complied with GNR and/or LN&ER policy on the form of station platform Starting signal arms for originating passenger trains, around 1922-'24 when the H. North layout was complete : - The box came in with its 65-lever frame on opening of the station and completion of the main line being double-tracked through from Cuffley to Langley Junction
Last edited by StevieG on Wed Jan 15, 2025 12:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
Morning Steve.
This has come up before when I asked about St. Margaret's bay signals on John Hinson's forum. St. Margaret's had a stack of miniature arms, same as at Hertford North. Both locations led to both running lines and to sidings and I couldn't understand why they were all miniatures.
The only conclusion we could could come to was that it might be an issue with clearance between running lines; a full arm would foul the adjoining line. It is certainly unusual.
Brian
StevieG wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2025 12:39 am
Sounds like the photos you've seen OliverBrowne date from when the signalling for the branch to Welwyn Garden City was still in place ; that turned left from the other lines near the signal box and passed to the left (as things are orientated in your incomplete track diagram) of the Up sidings whilst falling to a lower level before curving to the right, passing under the main line, and continuing approximately West in the direction of Hertingfordbury and Cole Green.
The Up line signal's L/H main arm applied for going onto the WGC branch : There was a miniature arm way down on the bracket signal's main post for moves into any of the sidings.
The Up direction sets of three miniatures for the Down line and Bay were for routes to the same three destinations as the Up line signals; but it was very odd that the top and bottom arms, for running moves to either the Branch or the Up Main, were miniatures rather than full-size arms.
Hi StevieG,
Thank you, I understand now. I didn't realise that there was a physical connection to the WGC branch. The map I have in a book (from just south of Cole Green viaduct to the tunnel north of Hertford) omits any join between the two lines.
WTTReprinter wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2025 9:07 am
Morning Steve.
This has come up before when I asked about St. Margaret's bay signals on John Hinson's forum. St. Margaret's had a stack of miniature arms, same as at Hertford North. Both locations led to both running lines and to sidings and I couldn't understand why they were all miniatures.
The only conclusion we could could come to was that it might be an issue with clearance between running lines; a full arm would foul the adjoining line. It is certainly unusual.
Brian
I'd forgotten about having seen photos of those WTTReprinter : Thanks.
WTTReprinter wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2025 9:07 am
Morning Steve.
This has come up before when I asked about St. Margaret's bay signals on John Hinson's forum. St. Margaret's had a stack of miniature arms, same as at Hertford North. Both locations led to both running lines and to sidings and I couldn't understand why they were all miniatures.
The only conclusion we could could come to was that it might be an issue with clearance between running lines; a full arm would foul the adjoining line. It is certainly unusual.
Brian
I'd forgotten about having seen photos of those WTTReprinter : Thanks.
