Atlantic's works: Portable layout - Scenic details next

[iands]

Admirable. That has given me food for thought.

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks for the comments. Always happy to share ideas.

[Atlantic 3279]

Fully expecting very limited clearances around the final ground signal that I mentioned above, I had paused its construction when I had done no more than to fit the pivot tube into the base, with a small projection above, and with the folded-up head soldered onto the spindle. It's just as well that I went no further, as I would have been modelling parts that could not have been accommodated in visible positions, if at all.
I did some clearance tests with various pieces of rolling stock this afternoon, and found to my surprise that loco cylinders, drain cocks and steps were not the biggest threat to cause trouble, even with the overthrow caused by curvature of the track with the signal on the outside of the curve. The real nuisances actually stemmed from axleboxes on over-width carriage bogies, lower stepboards on vintage carriages, and worst of all in fact the lower stepboards on a good brake van built from a modified Airfix kit.
Even to have the signal head just far enough away from the brickwork of the platform edge so that the head could rotate, it was necessary to keep the head very low indeed. In fact, when I had cut away a small patch of ballast to allow the signal base to sit at true baseboard level, just the rotating head on its spindle sitting in the short upward projection of the pivot tube came quite close to fouling the offending lower stepboards, but at least it was only close rather than in conflict.

I wondered about the legitimacy of having only that much of a GNR ground signal visible above ballast level, but thanks to my re-checking of an image that Steve White very kindly sent me shortly after my first round of tinkering with ground signals 7 months ago, I feel I have the evidence to justify (or excuse) the appearance that this ground disc will have to have. The image in question included a GNR ground signal, between tracks in a station, with its base sunken far below ballast-top level, an open-topped box having been built closely around the signal to keep back the ballast, and very little evidence of the supporting bracket or balance lever visible above the ballast level.
I could of course cut a recess in my baseboard so that a complete signal would fit, with most of it hidden, but I think I'll draw the line at what I already have - especially as it's also all but hidden from public view by the platform! I have other things to do with my time, and one bonus of keeping the construction so stubby is that should be reasonably resistant to being bent over or broken off if does get a clout.
In best dialect, I reckon we've larnt summat today!

[Atlantic 3279]

When I came to check and prepare the ground signals for paint, my lack of faith in the building method I had used for the very first one, as per the instructions, was confirmed. The small piece of tube soldered to the tiny tip of the upper limb of the bracket soon fell off. I therefore did a grudging partial rebuild of that signal, creating a new upper limb from strip wrapped around the spindle at the outer end.

All eight are now wearing paint, with lamps installed. I've so far applied the colours that I believe are most likely to be correct for un-modified GNR disc signals on a branch in the 1930s, but sources of information that I checked disagree on details. Derek Mundy's old MSE instructions say all black save for the front disc only in red. Andrew Hartshorne's current MSE instructions claim both disc faces red, but also indicate that the rear "face" of the lamp itself (whatever the "rear face" of a cylindrical-bodied lamp might be) should be white. Monochrome photos from the period make it hard to decide whether rear discs (if seen) were red or a not particularly fresh and clean white. The Vanns's GNR signalling book seems to support my white painting of the rear discs on these signals, but also puzzles me by referring to the white face as the "all clear" face. Yet I can see from photographs and drawings that the heads of these signals can only rotate by 90 degrees, so the "clear" or "alright" indication is actually given by the lamp displaying a (latterly) green light from its side lens, through the open side of the signal head. If anyone has a more authoritative version of the details of genuine 1930s painting of these signals, let them speak now or forever...

[65447]

These and other signals are not included per se in the standard painting schemes, other than to provide the BS381C references for the colours.

Have you looked at AA Maclean's A Pictorial Record of LNER Constituent Signalling, OPC? Not all pages are numbered, but p75 shows what may be an NER type preserved at Grosmont that shows how the circular barrel can show different aspects, in this instance red circular target but with white painted with lens at 90deg. The following two pages should be skipped until the GNR types are discussed on the page after, including a drawing.

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks for those comments. I think I may already have a copy of a portion of Maclean's text, but negligently filed without a note to indicate the source of the material. The same may be true of the information that I believe to have come from the Vanns book. I really should have taken more care to preserve the attributions

[Atlantic 3279]

Although positions are not finalised, as I have to work out what sort of linkages will fit underneath, I have test-planted the ground signals now in order to get an impression of what is possible and what looks right, such as:

Also, following some local consultation and discussion, followed by a quick search for reasonably relevant examples of real-life subsidiary signals, I've put together a test-piece to provide an alternative to the squeezed-in location of this supposedly sunken-base signal:

If I go ahead with the idea, the final model will need a slimmer post, probably shorter than the one shown below too (say 8 feet above the platform rather than 9 feet?), a firm guide loop near the base for the wire spindle, perhaps a ladder, and maybe a planked rather than plain top platform. It will also have to be removable, the rotating spindle connected by a simple separable joint to and extension permanently fitted in a tube through the platform and baseboard. I've already made the necessary pieces for that joint, just in case. My first thought was to put the elevated disc signal on the island platform, as close to the previous location as possible:

That puts it on the outside of the gentle curve as a loco and wagons set back along the line between the platforms, perhaps best for sighting, but I wonder, does that also put it in a position that could provide a misleading indication for trains on the running line on the outside of the two platforms?

An alternative is to build it opposite-handed and locate it against the fence at the back of the nearer platform, in which position I think it will still be just visible (rather than hidden by the station house) to a crew looking for it from a location under the arch of the station road overbridge.

There will be another ground signal beyond that bridge as crews of longer trains will still need to know when they are clear to set back into the goods loop.
I don't like having to take decisions...

[Atlantic 3279]

I would aim to make the separable joint in the vertical, rotating operation rod as per the images below.

Imagine that the foot of the post fits into a socket in the platform, so that the short piece of tube (soldered to the bottom end of the removable signal's spindle) just touches the platform surface at its own lower end. Notice that I've cut a slot in one side of the lower end of that tube. Assume also that there's a firm guide-loop around the bottom of the spindle, fixed to the post.
The other piece of tube will be permanently fixed in the platform and baseboard, with that wire (with bent end) aligned with the spindle of the removable signal, just protruding above the platform surface.

When the post is pushed home into its socket in the platform, with care to align the bend in the lower wire with the slot in the upper tube, the two should engage thus, giving up to 180 degrees of available spindle rotation, ample when only 90 degrees are required.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

In a location, end of a bay platform, would they have used a ground signal at all ??? It would probably have been a small miniature signal on a post, sited off the platform.

manna

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks. Another mini somersault has been considered, but unless I really have to make one, I'd rather use the disc I already have.

Whether disc or mini-somersault, am I right in assuming that the signal has to stand at/before the toe of the point, not beyond it? If so, it cannot be sited off the end of either platform. It's not a "bay" by the way, if I understand what a bay is - it's a through road between platforms and the signal is only for goods set-back moves into the loop.

It occurred to me later last night that there's a border full of shrubs/bushes to go in front of the rear fence of the platform on the right, so if the signal post stands on that platform it doesn't have to go right back against the fence. It could stand at the edge of the border, a bit more obvious to loco crews, the post about a scale 8' 6" from the platform edge on the model, where there's no risk of it obstructing safe use of the platform.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Sorry about that, I thought it was a Bay platform, you are correct, in your assumption that it would be before the points, so a 'Dolly' on a post would be the most logical position (or a miniature signal) But knowing the GN, you'd have a 40ft signal with a low down repeater.

manna

[Atlantic 3279]

Time for quick pictorial update, as I now have all ground signals installed and operable, a lightweight LED strip detachable lighting rig, a slot-in lightweight plain foamboard "sky" background (colour still to be decided), darkened ballast (to suggest ash), a run of telegraph poles, and a highly necessary detachable lightweight shelf on the operators' side to accommodate un-couplers, track cleaners, wheel cleaners, mugs of tea, biscuits and other operating essentials.

[Chas Levin]

Splendid!

[Mercator II]

Looking good, but not sure if the shelf is big enough to support all the tea that's going to be consumed!!

You planning on a "totem" on the lighting gantry?

Looking forward to the training day in a couple weeks

[Atlantic 3279]

I think any layout name sign may have to go on the front fascia of the baseboards Brian. The lighting gantry incorporates just about the minimum necessary strength of materials to support the current weight without unsightly sags or risk of breakage and collapse.