Last steam working?

[rockinjohn]

Hi that "Brit" ****4, the Scottish allocated "Brits" were regulars South to and North from Leeds,in the late'50's/early '60's &by the mids '60's had migrated South(from Scotland) &turned up anywhere that was LMR(Manchester) or NE(leeds) area,seem to remember 70054 spent sometime @ Banbury LMR by this time & may have reached London so xxx 54 a likely sighting.jj

[thesignalman]

Hi that "Brit" ****4, the Scottish allocated "Brits" were regulars South to and North from Leeds,in the late'50's/early '60's &by the mids '60's had migrated South(from Scotland) &turned up anywhere that was LMR(Manchester) or NE(leeds) area,seem to remember 70054 spent sometime @ Banbury LMR by this time & may have reached London so xxx 54 a likely sighting.jj

Funny you should mention 70054, it was the last Britannia I saw (and photographed) in the summer of 1966 at Preston. At that time it was a Kingmoor engine.

John

[Mickey]

I believe all the the remaining 'Brits' left in traffic eventually migrated to Carlisle Kingmoor shed between 1965-1967

[Mickey]

Bit of a strange incident involving Cricklewood on the old Midland main line out of St Pancras that I read yesterday evening in a book primarily about Southern steam at Feltham and Nine Elms sheds during the late 1950s and 1960s.

The author a ex-Southern Region fireman went on to relate a strange happening at Cricklewood during his time as a fireman at Feltham shed and when working on the cross London transfer freights between the Southern Region and the London Midland Region that occurred possibly in 1961 although he doesn't give an actual date of the following incident?. Apparently a 9F was standing in Brent sidings Cricklewood 'in steam' when the signalman in Brent no.2 box receives a phone call from what he believed to be was the fireman of the 9F 'ringing out' and telling the 'bobby' that they were 'light engine' for Wellingborough and were ready to go!. So the signalman in Brent no.2 'sets the road up' and gets the loco accepted by the Welsh Harp the next box along on the Down goods line and pulls off the exit signal from Brent sidings. The 9F then slowly moves out of Cricklewood Brent sidings and trundles across all the point work and out onto the Down goods line and passes Brent no.2 and continues along the Down goods line passing The Welsh Harp and Hendon boxes and eventually approaches and passes Silkstream Junction box where the Down goods line joins the Down slow line heading northwards and running parallel to the fast lines for the next 55 odd miles as far as Glendon North box where the two slow lines join the two fast lines and become a double-track section of main line.

About 10 miles along the Down slow line from Brent Cricklewood the 9F comes to a stand (I presume on the rising gradient from the north end of Radlett station heading towards Napsbury box) and just sits on the Down slow line stopping the job. At some point someone is sent to investigate why the 9F is just sitting there only to discover that there was nobody on the footplate and the water was 'low' in the gauge glass.

The author doesn't make it clear if this incident happened during daylight hours or during the night time although he does say that the 9F had the correct single 'light engine' headlamp on the front of the loco and a red tail lamp on the back of the tender although that in itself doesn't indicate if it was daylight or night time.

Also no mention by the author (not that he would have known) of how the 9F was treated after it passed Brent no.2 although the signalman in Brent no.2 would naturally assume it had a crew on the footplate. If whoever started the loco moving from Cricklewood Brent sidings had 'jumped off' after passing Brent no.2 assuming the loco had a 'clear road' through Welsh Harp, Hendon and especially at Silkstream Junction where the Down goods line joins the Down slow line although if nobody was on the footplate with the loco approaching Silkstream Junction the road through the junction may have been set for the loco or it may not have been?. At Silkstream Junction the 'road' from the Down goods line to the Down slow line must have been set by the signalman (at this stage the 9F may still have been signalled normally?) because from the Down goods line to the Down slow line 'unusually' there are two sets of 'trap points' one set behind a second set coming off the Down goods line worked by no.7 & no.8 levers in Silkstream Junction box and the trailing connection in the Down slow line from the Down goods line was obviously 'set up' by the signalman as well otherwise if the road from the Down goods to Down slow line wasn't set the 9F would have 'come off the road' at the first set of trap points!!. Anyway the 9F didn't come off the road at the first and second set off trap points and continued blissfully onwards for a number of miles before coming to a stand. On the other hand if the 9F had passed at danger the Down goods line home signal no.5 at Silkstream Junction the 9F would have 'come off the road' at the first set of trap points and also if the 9F had passed at danger either the Welsh Harp or Hendon Down goods line stop signals at danger it would have been treated by the signalmen in those boxes as a 'Run Away' and the appropriate action would have been taken by the signalmen involved accordingly.

As for the incident itself and the moving of the 9F the author believes it was possibly a malicious act by someone with a grudge?.

[rockinjohn]

Hi Mickey &all,so what procedure would you follow as the signalman for a "runaway train"(A) if in your section with a sand drag "siding"or(B) no possible diversion available to you in your section of line(s)irrespective of you yourself noting the absence of crew on the "runaway loco"or otherwise @ the time.jj

[Mickey]

Hi Mickey &all,so what procedure would you follow as the signalman for a "runaway train"(A) if in your section with a sand drag "siding"or(B) no possible diversion available to you in your section of line(s)irrespective of you yourself noting the absence of crew on the "runaway loco"or otherwise @ the time.jj

It depends jj on the situation a signalman is faced with?. This is more to do with signalling in the past and not necessarily what would happen on the railways today.

Back in 1961 when the 9F incident happened when the 9F running light engine left Cricklewood Brent after the fireman had rung up the signalman to tell him that they were for Wellingborough and were ready to go and the signalman in Brent no.2 box 'sent it on' to Welsh Harp (the next box along on the Down goods line) got the light engine accepted (on the block) and set the road up and 'pulled off' the exit signal from Cricklewood Brent sidings obviously someone was on the footplate at that stage to get the loco moving so nothing out of the ordinary would be suspected by the signalman in Brent no.2. Anyway once the 9F had passed Brent no.2 whoever was on the footplate possibly either 'jumped off' or stayed on the footplate possibly until beyond Silkstream Junction because if the 9F arrived at the Silkstream Junction Down goods line home signal (no.5) and it was at danger the signalman may well have already 'cleared the signals on the Down slow line' for a train running between Hendon and Elstree thus holding the 9F at the Down goods line home signal (no.5) and if no one was on the 9F footplate the loco would have come off the road at a set of facing 'trap points' (no.7) so whoever was on the footplate of the 9F may have decided to 'make certain' that the route off the Down goods line onto the Down slow line at Silkstream Junction was 'set up' for the 9F before 'jumping off the footplate' plus also after the 9F came off the Down goods line (the Down goods line home signal was clear') and joining the Down slow line it was basically a straight run for the 9F along the Down slow line to at least Elstree or further northwards. Also conversely another factor may have been whoever was on the footplate when the loco left Cricklewood Brent sidings maybe they 'jumped off' shortly after passing Brent no.2 because they didn't care about the situation at Silkstream Junction meaning if the road was cleared for the 9F or not and also because the further the loco went northwards maybe the 'longer the walk back' to Cricklewood?.

With regards to a 'run away' train.

The other alternative is it became apparent by either the signalmen at Welsh Harp or Hendon or even Silkstream Junction that the 9F had no footplate crew on board and was still proceeding forward (the loco may have 'run through' at danger various stop signals on the Down goods line?) in which case the 9F would have been treated as a 'Run Away' train by the signalmen involved. A special bell signal 4-5-5 Train running away in right direction would be transmitted on the block bells between the signal boxes on the route of the run away that would inform the signalmen that 'they had a run away train' approaching them. The signalmen would keep there signals at danger and pull any 'detonator placer levers' on the line(s) concerned and wouldn't set up a conflicting route that mite 'cross the path of the run away' train. If the 'run away' train enters an advanced block section that was already 'occupied' by another train obviously the signalman in the advance block section will have been informed by the signalman at the box in the rear prior to the run away train entering his section (no doubt the circuit telephone between the signal boxes would have been 'hot' with chatter between the signalmen regarding what was going on) also on double-track lines worked on Absolute block running line signals would have been thrown to danger or kept at danger on any opposite line(s) that entered the affected 'occupied block section' between both boxes with two trains in it and also any other lines 'feeding into' the affected line by stopping all traffic on those other lines proceeding in the opposite direction that would pass the two trains already in the block section on the opposite line. Obviously other things are going while it's all happening on the ground such as the control would be informed of the situation and would be speaking with the signalmen concerned and operations manager(s) would also be informed and would be making there way to the possible site of a collision and or to find out what the situation is with the run away train?.

In the case of the 9F incident 'maybe' none of the signalmen on the route of the 9F were aware of any problem with the loco meaning that none of them were aware that there was no crew on the footplate until the 9F finally came to a stand in the middle of nowhere?.