Last steam working?

[Mickey]

Just a curious observation I have always remembered was regarding a steam hauled freight train seen by myself in either 1965 or 1966?. The location was Crouch Hill station on the Tottenham & Hampstead line that runs in a east/west direction across north and north east London (these days the Gospel Oak-Barking line) and I recall seeing a big black loco possibly a 9F(?) but I don't know for sure because I observed the loco briefly from the top of a staircase that runs down to the Down platform and smoke from the loco was all over the station and hanging in the air which from memory was hauling a freight train heading eastwards through Crouch Hill station in either 1965 or 1966 and was either possibly heading into Temple Mills yards in east London or maybe heading towards the Barking direction but wasn't that very late in the day to see a steam hauled freight train crossing north London by that time?. Maybe it was one of the last steam workings passing through north London?. Eastbound trains can gain access onto the GN at Harringay Park Junction beyond Crouch Hill station but I doubt that it was going into Ferme Park as it was going at a fair pace through the station.

[rockinjohn]

Hi Mickey the last shed of LMR region (big black loco orgin)was Willesden(1A) in 1965 so whatever a rare sighting, the last knockings poss.an 8F most 9F long gone, banished Northward,think your destinations about right,but either way it would have been "turned"promptly &returned whence it came(no servicing in the East &they wouldn't have wanted to tow it like some earlier Marylebone steam arrivals.

[Pyewipe Junction]

My best guess would be a freight that had come off the Midland main line, possibly from Leicester, which according to BR Database had 8Fs up to June 1966. I assume that there would still be basic facilities such as water available in the area.

[Mickey]

Hi Mickey the last shed of LMR region (big black loco orgin)was Willesden(1A) in 1965 so whatever a rare sighting, the last knockings poss.an 8F most 9F long gone, banished Northward,think your destinations about right,but either way it would have been "turned"promptly &returned whence it came(no servicing in the East &they wouldn't have wanted to tow it like some earlier Marylebone steam arrivals.

That crossed my mind rockinjohn it was travelling west to east so if it was in either 1965 or 1966 it probably originated off the London Midland region from the Willesden area?. The loco was a tender loco and black but from my vantage point at the top of the station staircase at Crouch Hill station and which took me completely by surprise I only glimpsed it running through from a high angle but loco smoke was everywhere after passing through the station. Funny I never forgot seeing that steam hauled freight and it was I am sure the last B.R. steam loco I saw 'in steam' until seeing 4472 Flying Scotsman in 1968 a few months before the end of B.R. steam in the north west August 1968. I just assumed it was a 9F basically because the loco was big and black with a tender but that is just an assumption on my part.

[Mickey]

My best guess would be a freight that had come off the Midland main line, possibly from Leicester, which according to BR Database had 8Fs up to June 1966. I assume that there would still be basic facilities such as water available in the area.

Hey Pyewipe that didn't even cross my mind and yet it is quite feasible thinking about it that it came up the Midland main line through Wellingborough & Luton as far as Carlton Road Junction (Kentish Town) and then was turned onto the Tottenham lines up to Junction Road Junction then it joined the T&H lines for the run through Upper Holloway & Crouch Hill stations by which time it would have crossed into Eastern region territory at Crouch Hill and then possibly headed towards Temple Mills yards in east London.

It may have been in 1966 but I am not 100% sure about that although it was during the summertime I remember that and it was very early in the evening maybe between 6:00-7:00pm because it was still daylight.

[Mickey]

If it came up the Midland main line in either 1965 or 1966 I like to think it was a B.R. 9F 2-10-0 but from a very faded memory of around 55 years ago from where I was standing and observed it passing through Crouch Hill station heading eastwards all I recall was a sudden amount of noise as it emerged from under the Crouch Hill road bridge a long with a load of smoke and a brief glimpse of a large black shape in the smoke passing through the station that was quickly followed by it's train and a brake van at the rear that disappeared into the remains of the remaining smoke left hanging in the air after the train had passed through the station.

Somehow an ex LMS 8F 2-8-0 that rockinjohn suggested seems a bit of a let down?. Ha ha ha...

[neilgow]

Some one may know but one Saturday afternoon in July 1967 I was on Leeds City Station when a Britannia passed through. The last digit was a 4 and it has annoyed me for 54 years, I did not make a proper note of which engine it was nor the date.

Would I be right in thinking in this large pool of rail fans some one will know?

Just a thought.

All the best.

NG

[Mickey]

It may have been either no.70004 William Shakespeare or no.70014 Iron Duke?. After both locos were shedding at Stewarts Lane Battersea on the Southern region during the 1950s they were both transferred on to the London Midland region by the 1960s and film of either no.70004 or no.70014 is seen on a Transport Video Publishing dvd called Leeds to the roof of England in the Leeds area working a x3 vehicle parcel train in either 1966 or 1967 I'll check the dvd again this evening.

It turned out to be no.70009 Alfred The Great

[rockinjohn]

Hi seem to remember not long after transfer from the S.R. Iron Duke(70014) parting company with its tender @ speed on an up Midland Div.Express,it appears the two Southern class members never got the "links"reinforced/replaced like other class members from new or on a works visit.

[Mickey]

From a vague memory of being a youngster in the early 1960s in north London I could always tell if a steam train had recently passed through either Crouch Hill or Harringay Stadium stations on the Kentish Town-Barking line around 1962-63 because of the unforgettable smell of burnt loco coal smoke that would linger in the air for a number of minutes after a steam train had passed through especially on damp wet days although it wasn't that common a smell that I noticed by 1962-63 because I remember usually seeing either B.R. green liveried DMUs or Brush type 2s on that particular line but I remember one Saturday morning it was very noticeable a smell when travelling on the top deck of a bus from Finsbury Park to Wood Green with me mum (some of the top deck sliding windows were open) and going along Green Lanes and passing Harringay Stadium station the smell of recently burnt loco coal smoke was very noticeable in the air that particular morning.

That steam loco heading east through Crouch Hill station working a short freight in either 1965 or 1966 was more likely to have been a 8F you think jj and not a 9F?. It was all black but bathed in loco smoke heading through Crouch Hill station plus I didn't get a good look at the loco because I was standing at the top of the staircase entrance to Crouch Hill station looking down at the platforms from the station entrance on Crouch Hill Road and didn't quite see the loco properly although it made enough noise passing through the station!.

[rockinjohn]

Hi Mickey &all still think 8F,what else WR loco blk (unlikely)?SR Q1 or standard 4 or 5 all blk & not just dirt(possible but rare)@ anytime?,destination has to be Temple Mills/Ripple Lane or Thameside,but your right that aroma of a steam loco once smelt is in your blood and never forgotten, the best place I found for the same mix of hot oil/water/smoke/soot and steam with a view down the chimney too, was on the ramp down the "Street" standing above the small loco yard always a couple of tender locos simmering, be it a "Brit"/B1/B12 or a "Sandy",second would be the buffer stops @ the"Cross"a different smell more sooty with a distinct fish smell on the platforms next to York Way,what was there loco wise before the Deltics/Brush 2 etc? usually an A1 bubbling away/B1/N2/J50/A4 & A3 or just maybe a newly converted V2 in green with DBL chimney a worthy contender to the A1/A3&A4's.

[Mickey]

Yeah that steam hauled freight was travelling to fast through Crouch Hill station heading eastwards to be 'turning left' at Harringay Park Junction so yeah it was either heading for Temple Mills yards or maybe Stratford or going 'straight down' towards Barking, Ripple Lane/Dagenham?. I still can't remember exactly if it was 1965 or 1966 although it may lean towards 1966(?) during the summer months because it was still 'broad daylight' at between 6:00-7:00 pm that particular evening and for seeing a steam loco on a steam hauled freight passing through Crouch Hill station which was quite late for seeing steam by that year in the London area except on the London Midland Region at Marylebone until September 1966 and on the Southern Region at Waterloo until July 1967.

I would still like to think that it was a 9F (cos I like them) even though I didn't get a clear view of the loco from my vantage point at the top of the staircase at Crouch Hill station except that I remember it was all 'black' with a tender but I only glimpsed it through the smoke but jj I defer to your greater knowledge of steam still at work in the London area during the 1960s and therefore the loco may well have been a 8F that came up the Midland main line and then 'turned left' at Carlton Road Junction then up to Junction Road Junction and onto the Tottenham & Hampstead line across north London.

[thesignalman]

I think the 9Fs vanished from Old Oak in late 1962 so depending on your perceived date, it is not outside the realms of possibility. Most WR traffic used to run via Cricklewood Junction and Junction Road and rarely over the North London as I remember.

It looks like most of Cricklewood's 8Fs went about the same time although at least one survived until mid-63 from what I can find.

Best regards,

John

[burnie]

Hi seem to remember not long after transfer from the S.R. Iron Duke(70014) parting company with its tender @ speed on an up Midland Div.Express,it appears the two Southern class members never got the "links"reinforced/replaced like other class members from new or on a works visit.

Iron Duke was shedded at Annesley in the early '60's working on the Great Central to Marylebone, I recall seeing it most days.

[Mickey]

Most WR traffic used to run via Cricklewood Junction and Junction Road and rarely over the North London as I remember.

I remember when I was at Junction Road (box) on the T&H line between 1981-1985 a freight that came out of Temple Mills around 3:00 am Tuesday to Saturday mornings bound for Acton Yard (possibly 8V10?) was 'booked' to run via Junction Road, Carlton Road, Cricklewood, Dudding Hill, Acton Wells & Acton Yard but it never did and was always routed via Junction Road, Gospel Oak and across the north London line via Willesden High Level to Acton Wells. On a couple of occasions back then I was tempted to run it via Carlton Road Junction and Cricklewood but decided not to in case the driver challenged the junction signal being off not for the normal route plus the West Hampstead PSB signalman mite have started moaning?.

As for that steam loco passing through Crouch Hill station on a short freight train back in 1965 or 1966 all I can say for sure is that it was all over black with a tender and that is all I recall glimpsed amongst all the smoke?