Proposed new housing along the Hatfield to Hertford branch

[Eightpot]

When we first arrived to live in WGC in the autumn of 1966 the old Hatfield-WGC-Hertford single line branch was still laid in although from vague memory a few months later possibly in the first few months of 1967 the track was cut up and lifted because I remember taking a walk along the railway as far as the Holwell Hyde level crossing and the track was piled up in standard lengths after cutting up and waiting removal by train from the site back to WGC Up yard on flat bogie bolster wagons hauled by a green Brush type 2 also in the first half of 1967 the Ridge Way level crossing still had the railway line running through it south eastwards towards the next level crossing at Holwell Hyde.

I am fairly sure that prior to the lifting of the track myself and a couple of others walked passed the Holwell Hyde level crossing gates and walked along the redundant track to about half-way to Cole Green. At the Holwell Hyde level crossing and on the other side of the boundary fence but out of sight from the railway was a deep mud and sand quarry which may or may not still be there to this day some 55+ years on?. Also where the proposed housing is to be built that area was just 'open land' for a mile or so around with woods and open farm land back in the 1960s & 1970s.

The trouble with virtually the whole of the Hatfield-WGC-Hertford single line branch was that for most of it's length it was shadowed by two roads with one road to and from the Hatfield direction and joining the road to and from WGC at Essindon which wasn't to far from Cole Green and then carrying on to Hertford so it was a early candidate of the withdrawal of it's passenger service going back to before WW1 I believe although the branch passenger service carried on until the early 1950s and what freight services that were still running until the early 1960s.

Final paragraph. There was still a passenger service between Hatfield and Hertford North according to an LNER timetable for October 1st, 1945 until further notice. Only about half a dozen trains weekdays and Saturdays, and one only in each direction on Sundays.

[Hatfield Shed]

Passenger service ceased in 1951, by then of course under BR(ER) management. N7 69695 worked the final service Hatfield-Hertford North-Hatfield, a couple of photographs were taken, but no great fuss was made.

[StevieG]

Passenger service ceased in 1951, by then of course under BR(ER) management. N7 69695 worked the final service Hatfield-Hertford North-Hatfield, a couple of photographs were taken, but no great fuss was made.

Thanks Hatfield Shed; such an early service withdrawal.
Did that last outward service really originate from Hatfield ? - Quite an awkward thing to deal with at WGC, involving an 'N'-shaped shunt.
No problem ending up at Hatfield on the return leg though.

[Hatfield Shed]

Actually it didn't need to be awkward at all, thanks to the track layout which enabled the branches to be worked independently of the ECML. The reason for the impressive six track section Hatfield to WGC was that the four track ECML had the Hatfield to Hertford branch to the East side, and the Hatfield, Luton and Dunstable branch on the West side.* The branch trains thus ran what looked like 'wrong road' in one direction, I believe departing Hatfield from a bay platform at the North end of the up side platform heading to Hertford on the up side of the formation, up from Dunstable, from WGC to Hatfield running on the down side of the formation.

Now the question is, was the Hertford branch worked this way in 1951? Never saw this operation so don't know.


* This is 'fossilised' in the LNER design of WGC station: built with a pair of island platforms, the inside faces originally serving up and down main line, the outside faces primarily serving the branches: which on the down side has been repurposed for efficient working of WGC as the inner suburban country terminus by addition of the flyover, enabling access to the up lines from the down side platform faces.

[StevieG]

" .... Now the question is, was the Hertford branch worked this way in 1951? Never saw this operation so don't know. .... "

.... And that's why I posed the question : I never saw either of the two branches worked either, but I know from old signalling diagrams that around 1940/42-ish, the Hatfield/Hertford branch's passenger services (except possibly an occasional Up train, which could continue on the Up Slow) were cut back to start (Down) and terminate (Up) at WGC.
This to allow the Hat.- WGC east side single line to be converted into an Up Goods line (worked Permissively), presumably to help with southbound freight traffic levels i/c/w the war effort.
That line remained an Up Goods until around the 1966 time of the 'Wrestlers' bridge 'collapse', after which, like the Luton Line on the west side, it was seemingly never restored as a through line, having buffer stops erected on it on both sides of the bridge site ; the northern set of which were provided as for some years that line from WGC was retained as a long siding to allow the intermediate sidings to still be served, including that at Hatfield a short distance north of the collapse site.

[Mickey]

The trouble with virtually the whole of the Hatfield-WGC-Hertford single line branch was that for most of it's length it was shadowed by two roads with one road to and from the Hatfield direction and joining the road to and from WGC at Essindon which wasn't to far from Cole Green and then carrying on to Hertford so it was a early candidate of the withdrawal of it's passenger service going back to before WW1 I believe although the branch passenger service carried on until the early 1950s and what freight services that were still running until the early 1960s.

Final paragraph. There was still a passenger service between Hatfield and Hertford North according to an LNER timetable for October 1st, 1945 until further notice. Only about half a dozen trains weekdays and Saturdays, and one only in each direction on Sundays.

I believe I read about the possible closure to the passenger service along the branch was 'mooted' prior to WW1 but obviously they kept the passenger service running until the early 1950s. A halt at Attimore was opened by the GNR in May 1905 (Attimore is a area on what became the eastern outskirts of the new town of WGC from the 1920s onwards but I presume in 1905 it was just 'open countryside' and a nearby farmhouse?) and was closed just two months after opening. I read that a petrol-driven railmotor coach worked the branch between Hatfield & Hertford during the early 1900s which is quite interesting.

[Hatfield Shed]

... I never saw either of the two branches worked either, but I know from old signalling diagrams that around 1940/42-ish, the Hatfield/Hertford branch's passenger services (except possibly an occasional Up train, which could continue on the Up Slow) were cut back to start (Down) and terminate (Up) at WGC.
This to allow the Hat.- WGC east side single line to be converted into an Up Goods line (worked Permissively), presumably to help with southbound freight traffic levels i/c/w the war effort...

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. The loco would have to work from Hatfield shed, but with WGC the logical inner suburban 'country end' terminus it would be sensible to terminate Hertford branch passenger there for change to mainline services. (Arrangements for the West side branch to Dunstable were different; it had significantly greater traffic and a small number of through services which worked to KX almost to closure of passenger services. Loaned out my copy of the Oakwood Press book, so cannot check the detail...)

[Mickey]

From my fading memory shortly after the single line track was lifted back in 1967 between the Ridge Way LC and the Holwell Hyde LC (nearer the Holwell Hyde LC) several single storey buildings were built on the site of the old line and a surrounding open field around 1969 or 1970 on the eastern outskirts of WGC very close to the Black Fan Road anyway I presume the buildings are still standing some 54 or 55 years on in 2023 although I do know from a visit to WGC back in 2008 that the whole area that was once dominated by woods and open farm land was built over with new housing.

[rockinjohn]

Hi Intrestingly even @ mid June'59 their was a 5.45am (Workmans)train ex Dunstable to KX (34B)Sulzer type2 D53XX hauled, I assume with Quads,my question is was the last train from either Dunstable or Luton loco hauled or diesel railcar set (Cravens)?discounting Railtours & when did this occur?as a sideline post WW2 locomotives of classes working J3(ballast workings) N1 /N2(not popular with the trackwork.)N7/Y3(Sentinel)&J68 the last two classes for shunting work in the Luton &Dunstable areas which included Chemical Works in their duties.

[Hatfield Shed]

Final day of scheduled passenger service on the Luton and Dunstable was 24th April 1965, and appeared to have been operated for maximum variety from the inner suburban stock available. The usual Cravens DMU's that had dominated for the previous five years were supplemented by Brush 2 on BR 57' non-gangwayed, and the last departure from Dunstable was an EE type 1 ('thousand horse') with a Quadart set.

[rockinjohn]

Hi Hatfield thnks for that, so the last Workmans(5.45am) &Rtn workings the only through trains of the day by this time, were in or around mid year'59.

[Mickey]

With regards to the WGC-Dunstable branch a railway friend of mine who I met back in 1968 we both decided to walked the branch in both directions from WGC to Luton and from Luton back to WGC one day later in 1969. Anyway my friend mentioned to me about possibly acquiring the railway land at Ayot about one mile west from WGC station from B.R. which in 1969 still retained the then still standing disused Ayot signal box minus the window sashes and lever frame although the single line track was still laid in between WGC station and Blackbridge sidings for the running of the 'Ashburton Grove rubbish trains' although I can't recall if the Up loop was still laid in at the time of our walk although I do recall several GN/LNER straight concrete signal posts still remained in position minus signal arms.

My friend's idea was after acquiring the railway land around Ayot from B.R. he was then going to acquire a N7 tank loco and a Quadart set (from somewhere?) and I presume eventually a few other pieces of rolling stock and set up an early preservation centre, this was at a time 1969/70 when such railway preservation centres were starting up around the country like the Quainton Road railway centre north west of Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire and I recall him saying that it would be the closes railway preservation centre to central London 21 miles away although ultimately nothing came of it.

[Hatfield Shed]

Others had pipe dreams of such things, the most ambitious for the complete run WGC to Luton and Dunstable, potential for interchange on the ECML and MML; and with the LMR side interested, naturally they would take on Dunstable to Leighton and that's a WCML interchange as well.

Land values made it unfeasible, even your friend's modest scheme needed very deep pockets to get it off the ground.

[rockinjohn]

Well there was merit in your friends idea for a preserved railway nearer London,Quainton Rd a far stretch from the Smoke,&with the catchment area of railfans in London, I think would have shown good support &intrest, the Buntingford branch would have been perfect with its G.E.connection in place for stock transfer & the like,however one just has to look @ the success of the Epping/Ongar railway to prove your pal was on to something.

[Mickey]

Well there was merit in your friends idea for a preserved railway nearer London,Quainton Rd a far stretch from the Smoke,&with the catchment area of railfans in London, I think would have shown good support &intrest, the Buntingford branch would have been perfect with its G.E.connection in place for stock transfer & the like,however one just has to look @ the success of the Epping/Ongar railway to prove your pal was on to something.

A look on the Ayot St Peter's local website 3 or 4 years ago showed the old Ayot station area that once possessed a single line and a passing loop along with a couple of sidings on the Down side and Ayot signal box being all swept away and becoming a 'car park' surprise surprise!.

With regards to Quainton Road in Buckinghamshire that place always reminds me of a grey overcast 'wet and rainy' Saturday back in 1970 when as a young railway enthusiast I travelled out to Aylesbury on the train from Marylebone wanting to visit the place so on arrival at Aylesbury Town station and then leaving the station behind I walked the 6 or 7 miles along a main road through the rain to the site of the then fledgling Quainton Road Railway Society base camp which from memory appeared to be in the 'middle of nowhere' deep in the countryside north east of Aylesbury surrounded by woods and farmland anyway on arrival at the site of the railway there was some stabled rolling stock and a straight metal tubular signal post carrying home & distant signals worked off a nearby ground frame which held several levers which looked promising to me anyway I saw some guy and asked him if they had any 'signalling jobs' going as I was told that they were "crying out for signalmen" which resulted in me receiving a bit of a bemused look from the guy although admittedly I was only 13 years old at the time and probably looked about 10 years old in reality ha ha ha... Anyway I turned around and decided to walk back to Aylesbury station along the former double-track main line that had been reduced to a single line railway line by then instead of the walking back to Aylesbury along the main road and catching the first train back to Marylebone!. Anyway with regards to the Quainton Road railway site suffice to say I never returned to the place over the last 53 years.

And with regards to the Buntingford branch yeah you are probably right jj that branch would have made a good preserved line also I have a minor connection to that Buntingford branch because back around 1964 on about two occasions my parents and me travelled in our car to West Mill a station on the branch which may have only had recently closed in 1964(?) or was just on the verge of closing along with the whole branch line from St Margaret's station on the Broxbourne to Hertford East branch anyway West Mill village at that time had a 'old English tea shop' that served 'cream teas' on our two Sunday visits which was ok but for a youngster like me at that time I was more interested in the nearby railway line and the railway level crossing gates.