Proposed new housing along the Hatfield to Hertford branch

[Hatfield Shed]

Going off for a look at what''s proposed as 'Birchall Garden Suburb', with my 1951 two and a half inch map showing where the off load sidings for the London waste trains ('Ashburton Grove Pullman) were located. Hopefully the branchline route will be retained as a public right of way as at present...

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Another case of, 'We don't need the Railway, Close it' then they build houses near or on the Railway, which then require Transport infrastructure to be built. Stupidity at it's finest.

manna

[Hatfield Shed]

The eastward element of the 'Hatfield, Hertford, Luton and Dunstable' received its death blow when the GNR's Ponsbourne loop was opened.
This branch was short and through a sparsely populated area. Passenger services finished in 1951. Freight traffic on a stub worked from Welwyn Garden City remained until the early 1970s, ceasing as manufacturing industry in the town began its run down.

The route westward is the regrettable loss, a convenient passenger service between the ECML and the Midland and WCML without the need to go into London, and had regular freight. Passenger ceased in 1966 amid much protest. High land values meant no hope of private preservation of the very attractive Welwyn Garden City to Harpenden section through the woods and then along the Lea valley. (Imagine what a preservation outfit with half hourly services out of KX and StP to its Eastern and Western terminii respectively, might now look like...

[Mickey]

When we first arrived to live in WGC in the autumn of 1966 the old Hatfield-WGC-Hertford single line branch was still laid in although from vague memory a few months later possibly in the first few months of 1967 the track was cut up and lifted because I remember taking a walk along the railway as far as the Holwell Hyde level crossing and the track was piled up in standard lengths after cutting up and waiting removal by train from the site back to WGC Up yard on flat bogie bolster wagons hauled by a green Brush type 2 also in the first half of 1967 the Ridge Way level crossing still had the railway line running through it south eastwards towards the next level crossing at Holwell Hyde.

I am fairly sure that prior to the lifting of the track myself and a couple of others walked passed the Holwell Hyde level crossing gates and walked along the redundant track to about half-way to Cole Green. At the Holwell Hyde level crossing and on the other side of the boundary fence but out of sight from the railway was a deep mud and sand quarry which may or may not still be there to this day some 55+ years on?. Also where the proposed housing is to be built that area was just 'open land' for a mile or so around with woods and open farm land back in the 1960s & 1970s.

The trouble with virtually the whole of the Hatfield-WGC-Hertford single line branch was that for most of it's length it was shadowed by two roads with one road to and from the Hatfield direction and joining the road to and from WGC at Essindon which wasn't to far from Cole Green and then carrying on to Hertford so it was a early candidate of the withdrawal of it's passenger service going back to before WW1 I believe although the branch passenger service carried on until the early 1950s and what freight services that were still running until the early 1960s.

[Hatfield Shed]

...prior to the lifting of the track myself and a couple of others walked passed the Holwell Hyde level crossing gates and walked along the redundant track to about half-way to Cole Green. At the Holwell Hyde level crossing and on the other side of the boundary fence (out of sight from the railway) was a deep mud and sand quarry which may or may not still be there to this day some 55 years on?. Also where the proposed housing is to be built that area was just 'open land' for a mile or two around back in the 1960s & 1970s...

Your dates match my memory. The long term quarrying of sand and gravel in this area is now finishing with the obligatory restoration. The earlier pits you saw were the locations where London's waste was dumped until about 61/62. (As I have burbled on about before, the last time I saw an N7 at work was struggling to restart a waste train over the 'hump' of the level crossing on Ridgeway, the old 'bogie sulphate' then demoted to this traffic at the head of the train proving something of a challenge for the little old engine.)

...The trouble with virtually the whole of the Hatfield-WGC-Hertford single line branch was that for most of it's length it was shadowed by roads and in particular the WGC-Hertford road that ran through Cole Green so it was a early casualty for closure going back to before WW1 I believe?.

Adn also the Ponsbourne loop through Hertford commenced operation on single track in WW1, and during the inter war years once doubled must have taken nearly all the passengers from Hertford wanting to travel to London locations West of Liverpool Street. Hardly a surprise that it was rapidly closed after WWII.

The road of course the A414, now usefully dualled until we reach the failure of planning at Hertford. (As kids we would cycle from WGC on what was then the old single track road to use Hartham swimming pool in Hertford. Only 3d for entry, compared to 6d for WGC's rather more upmarket pool at Stanborough. The ride home was considerably eased by what then were the sharp turns through Hertingfordbury - now bypassed - which slowed many trucks to near walking pace. So we hung on the back and 'dropped off' about two miles later just past Cole Green for Birchall Lane into WGC. The route was all rather picturesque thanks to the attentions of Humphrey Repton, and I was later to learn that this was the landscape of Jane Austen's 'Pride and Prejudice'. There had been continuous private parkland from Hertingfordbury 'Longbourn' to Panshanger House 'Netherfield Park'; this enabling Lizzie - a gentlewoman - to walk between the two safely, a plot device essential to the tale.)

[Mickey]

The route westward is the regrettable loss, a convenient passenger service between the ECML and the Midland and WCML without the need to go into London, and had regular freight. Passenger ceased in 1966 amid much protest. High land values meant no hope of private preservation of the very attractive Welwyn Garden City to Harpenden section through the woods and then along the Lea valley. (Imagine what a preservation outfit with half hourly services out of KX and StP to its Eastern and Western terminii respectively, might now look like...

I re-wrote bits of my previous post Hatfield Shed and you are correct about how picturesque a lot of the countryside is around Hertfordshire even though it is only between about 15-35 miles from the centre of London and it seems a shame that every bit of English countryside appears to be fair game to be built on these days spoiling it.

With regards to the Hatfield-WGC-Luton single line branch I previously posted before about 12 years ago on here about a walk that I did with a old railway friend of mine when we both walked the length between WGC (the white bridge at WGC) to Chaul End just beyond the site of Luton Bute Street station back in 1969 and that turned out to be a 'walk and a half' that day in both directions!. We were both on our 'last legs' by the time that we arrived back in the town centre at WGC. Of course the single railway line was still laid in between WGC and Blackbridge sidings for the Ashburton Grove rubbish trains but we never saw one on that particular day. The old signal box at Ayot was still standing although it was disused and I recall the window sashes had been removed but other than that the structure appeared to be quite sound although suffice to say the interior of the box was empty with just a wide gap where the lever frame once was. Anyway beyond Ayot after the single line curved away off towards Blackbridge sidings the track had been lifted through the disused stations at Wheathampstead, Harpenden East and Luton Hoo until we approached the Vauxhall car plant on the outskirts of Luton where the single line track from Luton Bute Street finished/started at a set of buffer stops after which the track was still laid in and continued passed Luton East signal box (by then a ground frame with it's connection to and from the Midland main line at Luton South box) and the site of Luton Bute Street station and where Luton West s/box once stood and a bit further on to Chaul End level crossing after which the single line continued towards the Dunstable direction anyway we stopped and decided to walk all the way back to WGC which from memory seemed a daunting prospect!.

[rockinjohn]

Well Mickey, I understand the reasoning behind Closing Railway Lines that had proved to be loss making,however with the spread of Population outside of the Main Cities,London being a good example we lost the Green Belt,I firmly believe that the trackbed even if Rail&Sleeper removed should have been left in situ(By Law) like many in Europe incl. Eastern Europe, so should the day come that the rails could be reinstated,the right of way has survived, here's a couple of suggestions that with a light railway/tramway order could be viable even now &maybe even in the past decades, here's some suggestions Leighton-Buzzard to Dunstable/Aylesbury via the West Coast Mainline(Cheddington) Bletchley to Oxford/Palace Gates to East London/Alexandra Palace to Finsbury Park(partly in tunnel might work) Hatfield to Luton &Dunstable /Bradford&Nottingham Areas, so many others around the Country, sadly some have had Buildings constructed on the P/Way (March G.E. an example)Stations closed &whole areas of the Station's becoming Car/Coach Parks, it could work on Commuter Peaks alone, witness the Gospel Oak /Barking line, it was all so short sighted by those that lead us, anyone who followed the "Sparks" effect on, the Southern Railway Pre- WW2 /West Coast Mainline(mid 60's&the Shenfield/Southend services in the mid '50s once "Sparked couldn't fail to see the distances folks were prepared to travel to their workplace from their homes.

[Mickey]

As a railwayman friend once told me many decades ago 'It is easy to close down a railway line but once the 'railway earthworks' are obliterated it is very expensive to then reinstate the former railway line that once was' and with new housing estates also being built on former railway line track beds it's (virtually) impossible.

[Mickey]

The level crossing gates at both The Ridge Way LC and Holwell Hyde LC were still in situ in 1974 even though the single line branch between WGC and Hertford had ben lifted in 1967.

The area of the proposed new housing from memory is (or was) in the middle of nowhere back in the late 1960s but heavens knows what if anything has been built on the surrounding area since then?.

[Hatfield Shed]

The level crossing gates at both The Ridge Way LC and Holwell Hyde LC were still in situ in 1974 even though the single line branch between WGC and Hertford had been lifted in 1967...

...mostly; the stub of it still ran as far as the rear of Nortons, as they had abrasive fines delivered by rail until the early 70s, ICI Plastics also had occasional rail deliveries I believe.

...The area of the proposed new housing from memory is (or was) in the middle of nowhere....

My parent's first home was in The Commons and the woodland and (often boggy) wasteland between there, East to West from the rear of Thistle Grove and around the Holwell Hyde farm buildings and wherever we could get access to the closed branchline, to the boundary formed by the A414 was our wild playground: for getting wet and filthy while typically playing war games with the weapons provided by Lone Star of Hatfield. (Encouraged in this latter activity by the WWI battlefield reconstruction on wasteland created for a demonstration to the cabinet and others of the first production tank's capability. Big shellholes, trenches, barbly wire on stakes, etc..)

... heavens knows what if anything has been built on the surrounding area since then?.

Housing built on much of the Panshanger airfield from about 30 years ago and still expanding, P.W.Gates have just taken up a new handling/distribution premises built on brown land from the quarrying operation, on Birchall Lane heading toward Hertford, just after the former Holwell LC (The crossing keepers cottage is still there!) .

[Mickey]

The level crossing gates at both The Ridge Way LC and Holwell Hyde LC were still in situ in 1974 even though the single line branch between WGC and Hertford had been lifted in 1967...

...mostly; the stub of it still ran as far as the rear of Nortons, as they had abrasive fines delivered by rail until the early 70s, ICI Plastics also had occasional rail deliveries I believe.

...The area of the proposed new housing from memory is (or was) in the middle of nowhere....

My parent's first home was in The Commons and the woodland and (often boggy) wasteland between there, East to West from the rear of Thistle Grove and around the Holwell Hyde farm buildings and wherever we could get access to the closed branchline, to the boundary formed by the A414 was our wild playground: for getting wet and filthy while typically playing war games with the weapons provided by Lone Star of Hatfield. (Encouraged in this latter activity by the WWI battlefield reconstruction on wasteland created for a demonstration to the cabinet and others of the first production tank's capability. Big shellholes, trenches, barbly wire on stakes, etc..)

... heavens knows what if anything has been built on the surrounding area since then?.

Housing built on much of the Panshanger airfield from about 30 years ago and still expanding, P.W.Gates have just taken up a new handling/distribution premises built on brown land from the quarrying operation, on Birchall Lane heading toward Hertford, just after the former Holwell LC (The crossing keepers cottage is still there!) .

I use to occasionally walk along the remains of the Hertford branch from The Ridge Way LC gates to where the buffer stop was placed at the end of the line opposite the Lincoln Electrics factory into the town centre passed the Norton factory x3 roads siding and even to the box sometimes when I was on a late turn (14:00-22:00hrs) until about mid 1974 when we moved to the 'other side of the town' so I never really went back around the Heronswood Road/Ridge Way area anymore after mid 1974.

I went into that old quarry at Holwell Hyde a handful of times in the late 1960s but on reflection it was a dangerous place to access because it was in a deep quarry filled with sand and mud with a large amount of water at the bottom of it almost like a toxic lake!.

I visited WGC back in 2008 and took a walk to the end of the old branch where the buffer stop was onces placed back in 1974 and of course the remains of the Hertford single line had been lifted a long with the solitary buffer stop I presume several decades earlier. Also I took a walk down to the Panshanger area and then a walk along the Black Fan Road to where the Hertford Road the A414 joins in a wooded area and I was totally amazed that once what was 'open farmland' back in the late 1960s and into the early 1970s where you could see for several miles looking eastwards over farmers fields and hedgerows had been totally built on with new housing in the subsequent years since the 1970s. Yes Hatfield Shed you are correct I believe the old Panshanger airdrome that I believe was featured in part in the 1969 film The Battle of Britain (I recall hearing about that at the time back in 1969) appeared to have new housing built near it although the whole experience of my 2008 visit was like walking into a 'alien environment' which I felt no connection with from some 30 years earlier.

[Mickey]

Click on here- www.disused-stations.org.uk/a/attimore_hall_halt/

The old Hertford branch at Attimore Hall halt located on the eastern edge of WGC and shown at various times down the years. The picture featuring the 'end of the line' buffer stop in 1974 was in the time that I occasionally use to walk a long the old rusty track to and from the town centre between 1970-1974. About 350-400 yards further on from the buffer stop heading westwards towards the ECML and the town centre was the Norton Abrasives factory which had three quite long sidings roads outside the rear of the factory two roads of which had a set of points in them at the far end to be able to run/round a loco I presume?. The Norton sidings by the early 1970s were rarely used but from a vague memory I believe I did see several wagons stabled in those sidings on one or two occasions during that time also strangely the rails in those sidings were 'black' all over in colour possibly due to them rarely having any wagons or vehicles running over them?.

[Mickey]

Just beyond the set of points leading off of the single line Hertford branch that gave access into the Norton's x3 roads sidings was the redundant straight concrete signal post (of medium height) that once carried the WGC Up Hertford 'fixed distant signal' although I presume the signal arm had been removed sometime earlier during the 1960s although I have seen this signal shown on one of the WGC box track diagrams that are sometimes posted on here. The points that lead into the Norton's sidings were 'hand operated' when I use to see them although I assume that they were at onetime worked off a one lever ground frame at the points released by a Annett's key in the Annett's lock on the points lever?.

The ballasting of the single line branch in the location of Norton sidings was of a 'shallow stone ballasting' but the x3 Norton sidings roads were ballasted on a bed of 'ex loco smoke box char & ash' so the sleepers were quite flat on the ground.

A little known structure that possibly nobody was aware of was located near the top of the rising gradient of the line at this location and heading in the UP direction towards WGC station was just before the single line crossed the Bessemer Road iron bridge (painted in flat iron grey) a small concrete WW2 'pill box' was located with a backdrop of some trees behind it to the right-hand side of the line if heading towards the town centre.

[Hatfield Shed]

...A little known structure that possibly nobody was aware of was located near the top of the rising gradient of the line at this location and heading in the UP direction towards WGC station was just before the single line crossed the Bessemer Road iron bridge (painted in flat iron grey) a small concrete WW2 'pill box' was located with a backdrop of some trees behind it to the right-hand side of the line if heading towards the town centre.

The Bessemer Road bridge carrying the Hertford branch was post WWII, Bessemer Road terminated for road traffic at the branchline before the road was reconstructed in a cutting so that the road underbridge could be constructed in the late 1950s. This was well after the passenger service had ceased, so presumably the freight for at least four rail served industries, and the London trash tipping traffic to the worked out Birchall Lane pits, justified the expense. Quite what that pillbox was for no-one seemed to know (might still exist under the spoil dug out to make the road cutting, its location was in an overgrown patch in what became the local authority's refuse vehicle yard). Only know this much from my late FiL, a manager at Nortons from 1950s until closure, regarding supply continuity by rail to the factory while the work was ongoing.

[Mickey]

...A little known structure that possibly nobody was aware of was located near the top of the rising gradient of the line at this location and heading in the UP direction towards WGC station was just before the single line crossed the Bessemer Road iron bridge (painted in flat iron grey) a small concrete WW2 'pill box' was located with a backdrop of some trees behind it to the right-hand side of the line if heading towards the town centre.

The Bessemer Road bridge carrying the Hertford branch was post WWII, Bessemer Road terminated for road traffic at the branchline before the road was reconstructed in a cutting so that the road underbridge could be constructed in the late 1950s. This was well after the passenger service had ceased, so presumably the freight for at least four rail served industries, and the London trash tipping traffic to the worked out Birchall Lane pits, justified the expense. Quite what that pillbox was for no-one seemed to know (might still exist under the spoil dug out to make the road cutting, its location was in an overgrown patch in what became the local authority's refuse vehicle yard). Only know this much from my late FiL, a manager at Nortons from 1950s until closure, regarding supply continuity by rail to the factory while the work was ongoing.

Interesting Hatfield Shed regarding that concrete 'pill box' located beside the line near the Bessemer Road railway over bridge?. I recall having a look inside it at least on one occasion a little over 50 years ago now but it was basically empty although I must have walked passed it on many occasions back in the early 1970s when walking along the line to and from WGC station as far as the solitary buffer stop at the site of Attimore halt and beyond it.

By the way I amended my previous post because I now assume the points giving access to and from the Norton Abrasive sidings were probably worked off a one lever ground frame with a Annett's key that slotted into the Annett's lock on the points lever to release the points to be able to move them. Long after the passenger service finished on the Hertford branch in the early 1950s and then after the freight service also finished in the early 1960s I assume the ground frame to gain access to the Norton sidings was abolished and those points then became 'hand worked' by a hand lever that was beside the point ends which I remember seeing because by then the remains of the single line from WGC yard and station as far as the solitary buffer stop at the site of Attimore halt (very near to the Lincoln Electrics x2 road sidings) was classed as a 'siding' only throughout.