s/box closure date?

[Mickey]

Bow Junction box on the double track 'Poplar lines' leading down from Victoria Park at Hackney Wick to Poplar docks in east London with a double track junction heading off towards the LT&S railway and the Fenchurch street lines in east London. The box was of North London Railway origin and was possibly built around the 1890s or early 1900s and replaced an earlier box at the same location with the later box being closed possibly sometime during the early 1960s but what date?. Several pictures on line show the box outside and inside possibly shortly before closure?. The interior pictures show a North London Railway stirrup lever frame with maybe two B.R. plastic block instruments mounted on the block shelf along with possibly a lone B.R. plastic single stroke block bell (it's a bit hard to make out from the black & white pictures) probably working to & from the LT&S lines under TCB regulations?. The track diagram appears to be of B.R. LMR heritage.

[WTTReprinter]

There were two boxes at Bow;

1. Bow Jcn at the Devons Road end, controlling the connection towards Gas Factory and on/off the Works
2. Tilbury Jcn at the Victoria Park end, controlling the connection towards Bromley Jcn and the Milk Sidings at Tredegar Road.

I have a closure date for Tilbury Junction as 20/09/1959 but no date for Bow Junction (but probably the same)

[Mickey]

Thanks WTT. Another Bow Junction box existed on the GE main line between Bethnal Green and Stratford although that box was a brick and glass building containing a route setting panel and I presume dates from the later 1940s GE electrification project.

I have been studying the North London Railway area of Bow Junction where the NLR main works were located not to far from Devons road loco sheds.

In 1980-81 I was a resident signalman at Victoria Park box at Hackney Wick in east London and on the 'Poplar lines' apart from a double track run/round line as far as the 'Old Ford ground frame' which controlled access onto the single line proper down to Poplar docks and was worked by a single line token that also unlocked and locked the ground frame at Old Ford by the train guard the route south from Old Ford through the former Bow Junction and passed the former Devons road loco sheds was by then fairly empty all the way down until you arrived at Poplar docks with all the previous railway features of stations, signal boxes and signals having all been swept away. Some of that former Poplar lines route I believe is now days part of the Docklands light railway?.

[Mickey]

Bow Junction box probably pictured in the 1950s?.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... yQtT14urxA...

[WTTReprinter]

Hi Mickey.

When I first started on the railway at Hackney Downs in 1977, I walked trackside to Vicky Park, just to have a look. The branch was still intact but I was told that the line hadn't seen a train in quite a while.

I always found the NLR a very interesting route and wrote a simulation of it, pre-war when the passenger service was at its peak. Bow Works at that time was a major works and carried out repairs from all over the LMS. I also read in Railway Observers for the period that it even did installation work fitting ATC equipment to GW locos (this was late 1930s) Sadly, the docks never really recovered from the pasting it received from the Luftwaffe and gradually it faded away into insignificance, taking Bow with it.

[Mickey]

When I first started on the railway at Hackney Downs in 1977, I walked trackside to Vicky Park, just to have a look. The branch was still intact but I was told that the line hadn't seen a train in quite a while.

When I was a resident signalman at Victoria Park box between 1980-81 a weekday daily freight train known locally as the 'Poplar goods' use to come out of Temple Mills yards around 10:00am bound for Poplar docks usually worked by a Stratford class 31 with a rather lengthy train consisting of box vans and bogie bolster wagons with a brake van at either end because the loco had to run/round it's train at Victoria Park on the Poplar branch and would return a couple of hours later from Poplar docks with another lengthy train bound for Temple Mills yards. At the Poplar docks end of the line the fairly large yard consisted of around 10 roads although many of the roads were usually empty by 1980 plus a resident B.R. 350hp class 08 diesel shunter was to be found along with it's driver and a railman/shunter and a 'yard master' and a TOPS office as well.

I always found the NLR a very interesting route and wrote a simulation of it, pre-war when the passenger service was at its peak. Bow Works at that time was a major works and carried out repairs from all over the LMS. I also read in Railway Observers for the period that it even did installation work fitting ATC equipment to GW locos (this was late 1930s) Sadly, the docks never really recovered from the pasting it received from the Luftwaffe and gradually it faded away into insignificance, taking Bow with it.

Yes I agree WTT the North London Railway and later on in B.R. days the North London line has always been an interesting railway to study along with the route the traffic and it's stations and signal boxes. I managed to visit both Broad street No.2 and Dalston Junction boxes back in 1970 and I actually worked Western Junction box (at Dalston) back in 1987 as a resident signalman at the box for about four months before going on the relief staff and also working Camden Road box as both a relief signalman between 1987-1990 and a resident signalman at the box between 1992-2004.

[thesignalman]

I have a closure date for Tilbury Junction as 20/09/1959 but no date for Bow Junction (but probably the same)

Bow Junction remained for quite a few years after Tilbury Junction was abolished. The Fenchurch Street line was retained for access to Bow Common Gas Works. Bow Junction was proposed for closure on a plan dated 16/5/68 but I don't have the exact date for the changes.

John

[Mickey]

Does anyone know the closure date of Ferme Park South Up box?. The box was a small box of maybe 20-25 levers maximum I would say(?) and was located on the Up side of the running lines nearly underneath the Harringay flyover near where the present day exit from Hornsey EMU sidings are between Hornsey & Harringay stations. I vaguely recall seeing the box after it had closed in June/July of 1967 after which the redundant structure was gone!.

I tried to post a picture of the box but photos of Ferme Park South Up are extremely rare.

[StevieG]

31 levers at closure Mickey.
At weekend of 7/8th Sept. 1968 in my notes : Along with Stevenage South, one of the two closures in 'our' area that I recall from around that time, neither apparently being in any connection with the upcoming resignalling.

[Mickey]

Does anyone know the closure date of FORK JUNCTION s/box that was situated on the 'low level lines' at Stratford station in East London?. Fork Junction was a small box possibly containing about 25-30 levers?. I remember seeing the box around 1970-71 and I think the box roof may have been seen when standing on Stratford Down fast line platform looking northwards across towards the Stratford loco sheds area?. When I saw this GER box around 1970-71 the layout had been rationalised with the double-track junction points leading to and from Stratford loco having been removed and plain lined and just leaving the Down and Up North Woolwich lines plus the box also worked a single siding road I believe not far away heading towards Channelsea that occasionally had a x2 car DMU stabled on it.

A couple of pictures of the Fork Junction s/box appear on line if you type in Fork Junction signal box at Stratford.

[kudu]

Can't help with an answer but anyone interested in this area should take a look at The Great Eastern in Town & Country published by Irwell Press, which probably includes the best set of photos (plus plans) of the Works and associated running lines. There is a view of Fork Junction and its box from under the bridge, the works, or some of it, in the background. I think it's in Vol 1 - Vol 2 has excellent coverage of Liverpool Street and its intricate pointwork for the steam-worked Jazz service. I believe the same series covers the line out of Fenchurch Street and its many goods yards.

I've always been fascinated by Liverpool St and Stratford and am glad I caught them in steam days.

Kudu

[Mickey]

I've always been fascinated by Liverpool St and Stratford and am glad I caught them in steam days.

I must admit that after standing at the end of the old no.10 platform at Kings Cross for hours on end watching Deltics coming and going along with Brush type 2s & 4s it made a nice change to visit Liverpool Street and see some of the GE Brush type 2s & 4s along with the green livered English Electric type 3s (latter day class 37s) for a change and also to 'shed bash' Stratford loco as well for a change of scenery, this would have been around 1970-71. With regards to Stratford shed it was fairly easy to walk around the place although if the shed foreman spotted you he would tell ya to 'clear off' in no uncertain terms although most locomen wouldn't say anything.

While wandering around Stratford shed one day as a 13 or 14 year old kid in 1970-71 I saw a line of withdrawn 'Baby Deltics' waiting for scrapping standing on one of the sidings roads anyway later on at the end of the 1970s I was a secondman at Stratford loco during most of 1979.

With reference to Stratford Fork Junction s/box the box may have closed around 1974-75 but that is just a guess on my part.

[rockinjohn]

Hi, yes I remember that "fork junct. box"@ Stratford low lvl,behind the box stood a carriage shed that @ one time held some soon to be preserved steam locos from the ER,all under lock &key to prevent vandalism, most(passenger) trains took the RH fork onward to Lea Bridge &Palace Gates from Nth Woolwich usually L1 or N7 hauled, the LH fork always Goods Trains, but in those days few &far between.

[Mickey]

Hi, yes I remember that "fork junct. box"@ Stratford low lvl,behind the box stood a carriage shed that @ one time held some soon to be preserved steam locos from the ER,all under lock &key to prevent vandalism, most(passenger) trains took the RH fork onward to Lea Bridge &Palace Gates from Nth Woolwich usually L1 or N7 hauled, the LH fork always Goods Trains, but in those days few &far between.

The earliest memory that I have of going to Stratford station was on the Central line from Liverpool Street during 1970 and of course Fork Junction s/box was still there at that time situated at the north end of Stratford low level station on the Woolwich lines just beyond the large railway bridge that carried the Up and Down main lines and Up and Down goods lines from both Carpenters Road and Chanelsea through the station and also around towards Stratford loco and Temple Mills yards. To the south side of the main lines through Stratford station ran the electric lines (slow lines) and also the London Underground Central line surfaced at Stratford station before diving back down into the tunnels again either side of Stratford station. In 1970 (and obviously before 1970) a x2 car DMU worked the Stratford low level-North Woolwich service that was known by Stratford locomen as the 'Kent Coast Express' and as it was still referred to as that in 1979 when I was a secondman at Stratford loco.

I did visit Stratford Southern Junction s/box one day back in 1980 because a signalman who was a resident at the box at the time I knew because we both went through the Ilford signalling school together at the same time during February & March of 1980. Stratford Southern Junction s/box was a GER design box and was situated a couple of hundred yards to the south of Stratford low level station beside the Down Woolwich line with the box being mounted on tall iron stilts which had a long staircase from track level leading up into the box itself so the operating floor (the box interior) was quite high off ground level. From vague memory the box held about a 50-60 lever frame (flat top levers that stood straight/vertical in the frame in the normal position) that overlooked the railway outside the box and when I visited the box in 1980 Southern Junction worked with Stratford 'C' panel (possibly via an 'acceptance switch' in both boxes?) on one side and Absolute block with Abbey Mills s/box on the other side although when Abbey Mills box was closed and 'switched out' during the night and at weekends it meant that Southern Junction worked Absolute block with Custom House s/box during those times that Abbey Mills was closed. Also outside the box was a double-track Junction that curved around sharply to the left to and from the Bow Junction direction that was either worked by Stratford box or Bow Junction box I can't remember which box it was now?. Stratford Southern Junction box also worked the double-track junction again just outside the box in the Up and Down Woolwich lines with the junction points leading onto and off the goods lines (worked as 'No block lines' I believe?) to and from Stratford Market that ran almost parallel to the Up and Down Woolwich lines with one single 'road' leading off these goods lines somewhere around the Stratford Market area that continued on passed Abbey Mills box and also further on down towards the Canning Town direction where it finished.

Southern Junction s/box also had a small number of semaphore signals mounted on various signal posts around it's area and a old signal gantry south of the box (obscured and hidden from view from the box due to a bridge structure with buildings on it) which from memory spanned all four running lines which carried Southern Junction's Up Woolwich line and Up goods line home signals along with possibly Stratford 'C' panels 'fixed semaphore distant signals' which I presume were originally Fork Junction's distant signals before Fork Junction box closed, and also from vague memory their may have been two 'fixed semaphore distant signals' underneath the junction home signals on the same gantry for the route that lead off the Up Woolwich line and around the left-hand curve heading towards the Bow Junction direction as well.

[rockinjohn]

Hi Mickey &all,nice picture painted there,also there was an up &down curve from the Up&Down slow lines just after Maryland & before Stratford(quite often the "Ferry" trains would come thru on the Up Slow, so as to hold before Spitalfields could take them, Steam days(B1&K3)or Diesel D503X, some two-tone livered or Brush type 2 all Ipswich(32B) shedded,& slowing the UP Trams arrivals) that entered the Woolwich lines behind the Up Stratford LOW lvl Platforms.little used by UP goods trains &a bit more frequently by DOWN Goods Trains,only ever saw 3 movements on this curve sneaking thru in total 2X J15's both DOWN &1xJ69 UP light engine both types we shunned & v.common in the area prefering to ooh &ah over the Brits&"Footballers",during those "steam"days,standing on the Down Platform where the Southend (fast)&Shenfield tram services stopped,gave an excellent view of the area out to the works &MPD &low level lines in the N.E.direction,I can remember the B17's rocking a bit thru the station Up&Dwn, the Brits sure footed all the way & the curve thru to Maryland taken @ a very fast click much to my surprise 55+mph someone might like to share the true speeds obtained as its all in the past.jj