Alexandra Palace and Working Timetables

[gbuchanan]

I've got what might be a question with an obvious answer, but it eludes me what it might be!

I've got a couple of working timetables, and I'm trying to interpret the data in them accurately. In particular, I'm looking at the Alexandra Palace branch, which might be pertinent to anyone with 'local' knowledge to that.

I'm looking at goods movements. For these there are, obviously, scheduled stops at stations, and such cases are simple. However, there are stations that possess a siding (for example) but are not allocated a stop time (one example here being Crouch End, which certainly did have a siding, though when it went out of use I do not know). In other working timetables for other railways, any optional stops were essentially on demand, and not timetabled per se. However, I'm not sure if this is true of LNER practice.

So, in short my questions are:
* Are non-timetabled sidings simply served on demand, or is the lack of a scheduled stop evidence a siding is closed?
* And just in case, does anyone have pre-WW2 working timetables for this branch that they could provide the goods workings for?

Many thanks for any illumination. I'm new to LNER matters, and my ignorance feels boundless!

--
George

[Mickey]

I'm looking at goods movements. For these there are, obviously, scheduled stops at stations, and such cases are simple. However, there are stations that possess a siding (for example) but are not allocated a stop time (one example here being Crouch End, which certainly did have a siding, though when it went out of use I do not know). In other working timetables for other railways, any optional stops were essentially on demand, and not timetabled per se. However, I'm not sure if this is true of LNER practice.

I can't answer your question directly George but the mention of Crouch End station takes me back nearly 60 years to when we lived around the Crouch Hill area in North London between 1960-1966 and during that time period as a youngster around 1964-66 I visited the then disused Crouch End station and the nearby disused Stroud Green station on a number of occasions. At that time the double-track railway line was still laid in between Finsbury Park and East Finchley and was still in occasional use by London Underground for ECS (Empty Coaching Stock) Northern line transfer movements between East Finchley/Highgate Woods sidings and Drayton Park and vice versa hauled by L.T. battery locos. As for Crouch End station, it's self from memory, by 1964-66 the wooden station buildings on both the Up and Down platforms were still intact along with their respected station wooden awnings although as expected all the station windows had been broken by stone-throwing youths in the area by then.

[rockinjohn]

Hi all being young &only a child which is the way it usually works, I can just remember the "Ally Pally "branch passenger workings which ceased in mid '54 & not all workings were push-pull operated by this time, usually in latter years a condensing N2 turn(34A)....crews may have been from(34B)& a runround being made after arrivals,goods rare,coal more frequent, again gone by mid'57,usually hauled by an N2 but a (34B)turn ex:Ashburton Grove Sidings when witnessed by myself just a brakevan &a couple of wagons,last movement I saw on the branch was adjunct to Wellington Sidings(LTE)orig: LNER, just a light N2 standing viewed from the Highgate Woods, maybe in conjunction with the lifting of track further up the branch, when the coal trains ceased we really @ that age expected the Tube trains to soon follow, with cables&/brackets/pristine concrete posts already fixed for part of the branch,not sure when the High Barnet coal traffic ceased, although day excursions sometimes left for points East or South,I know the Edgware/Mill Hill? coal trains lasted a bit longer.jj

[gbuchanan]

Thanks everyone,

After a bit more digging, I can add more detail. At present, it appears the Crouch End siding went out of use after 1944, and before 1951. Exactly when in that period isn't clear, as yet, though more timetables could reduce the timeframe. Having lived locally, the siding wouldn't have been that easy to move coal out of, and quite possibly most of the coal traffic was diverted to Cranley Gardens instead, and moved locally from there by road.

What I have found is notes from the 1944 timetable saying that the Crouch End station should telegram Highbury Vale how many, if any, wagons were to be dropped off and/or collected the next day. This might (just) prove useful to someone else.

Thanks for all the information you provided.

George

[silverfox]

The April issue of London Railway Record has an article on both stations