Brush type 2s & 4s

[Mickey]

Hi Mickey, Eastleigh 9F's allocated? if they were, not that many, maybe to cover inbound failures?, would have been for the Fawley Oil tank workings,lots of 9F Midland vistors some staying for a visit to the works,now can you clarify please did the Brush type2 ever appear in two tone green,as I think you mentioned it?I could be wrong,I think the BR derby sulzer 2's the first locos I ever saw in "true"two tone when new 75/76xx apart from the Ipswich based 9 or 10 503x members.

On second thoughts jj I am not sure if those two B.R.9Fs were allocated to a shed on the southern region and in fact I can't remember if it was Eastleigh shed either I just remember reading something about a couple of 9Fs being on the southern region and not just passing through either they were more permanently to be found on the southern which as everyone knows the southern region was primarily a passenger railway with little heavy freight traffic to speak of.

Some more diesel memories, I was at Camden Road box on the North London on the night when the very last train of stone empties hauled by two southern class 33s departed the old Kings Cross Goods yard or what was left of it for the very last time and came up the Kings Cross Incline heading back to Angerstein Wharf in Kent on the former southern region at around 3:00am one Saturday morning (no gricers around to witness the passing) but I can't remember the actual year it may have been in either 1999 or 2000?. Anyway during the following weeks redevelopment work of the old Kings Cross Goods yard area commenced.

[rockinjohn]

Hi Mickey never knew of that working of the 33's to Kings "X" yard the cement works I suppose?/only ever looked over that wall on that side of York Way once, standing on my bike cross bar to be rewarded with the only O1 (B1 boilered)?sighted in all those years think a March(31B)loco.jj

[rockinjohn]

Hi Mickey yes you were correct Five(5) 9F's were allocated to Eastleigh(71A) for the Fawley/Bromford Bridge oil trains in 1961,after a short spell moving on to Feltham (MPD)jj

[strang steel]

In response to Mickey's comment about the GWR 47 diesels staying on GWR territory, I have somewhere amongst my negatives an image of one of the Stars standing outside Aviemore North signal box in 1979.

To be honest neilgow in 1969 I recall the named Brush type 4 Atlas D1515 (47 416) turned up working south through Hatfield on a oil train (the large oil tankers) and in fact around that same time I recall seeing that same loco passing through Welwyn Garden City again on possibly the same oil train?. Also I have a vague feeling I saw Orion D1566 (47 449) on the southern end of the ECML but I am not 100% certain about that?.

Sorry Mickey, but your memory is playing tricks on you. D1515 was never 'Atlas', that was D1667; a WR loco renumbered initially to 47082; until 1990 when it moved to Crewe as 47626.

D1566 was never 'Orion' either, as that name was on D1668 also a WR loco renumbered initially as 47083, until 1985 when it moved to Scotland as 47633.

[Mickey]

In response to Mickey's comment about the GWR 47 diesels staying on GWR territory, I have somewhere amongst my negatives an image of one of the Stars standing outside Aviemore North signal box in 1979.

To be honest neilgow in 1969 I recall the named Brush type 4 Atlas D1515 (47 416) turned up working south through Hatfield on a oil train (the large oil tankers) and in fact around that same time I recall seeing that same loco passing through Welwyn Garden City again on possibly the same oil train?. Also I have a vague feeling I saw Orion D1566 (47 449) on the southern end of the ECML but I am not 100% certain about that?.

Sorry Mickey, but your memory is playing tricks on you. D1515 was never 'Atlas', that was D1667; a WR loco renumbered initially to 47082; until 1990 when it moved to Crewe as 47626.

D1566 was never 'Orion' either, as that name was on D1668 also a WR loco renumbered initially as 47083, until 1985 when it moved to Scotland as 47633.

Ha ha I can't even remember writing that post John?. All the Western Region Brush type 4s were in the 1600 series from memory and were very rare if ever seen on the Eastern Region in the late 1960s and early 1970s?. As previously mentioned by me I am 100% certain I remember seeing the Brush type 4 named Atlas in two tone B.R. green livery passing through Hatfield station on a southbound oil train (large oil tanks) running along the Up slow line sometime during 1969. The originally named B.R. Brush type 4s were pretty rare birds to be spotted on the Eastern Region out of Kings Cross during the late 1960s and into the early 1970s from memory?.

The Brush type 4s regularly seen on the Kings Cross area during the late 1960s and into the early 1970s were-

Some of the early numbered 1100 series along with the early numbered 1500 series and some of the 1700 series and finally some of the 1900 series were to be seen on the Kings Cross area. The 1600 series I think were mostly to be seen working on the Western Region and the 1800 series did rarely appear on the Kings Cross area but I think the bulk of the 1800 series Brush type 4s were to be found on the London Midland Region?. It is such along time ago now well over 50 years ago since I did my 'loco spotting' during 1968-1971

[StevieG]

To be honest neilgow in 1969 I recall the named Brush type 4 Atlas D1515 (47 416) turned up working south through Hatfield on a oil train (the large oil tankers) and in fact around that same time I recall seeing that same loco passing through Welwyn Garden City again on possibly the same oil train?. Also I have a vague feeling I saw Orion D1566 (47 449) on the southern end of the ECML but I am not 100% certain about that?.

Sorry Mickey, but your memory is playing tricks on you. D1515 was never 'Atlas', that was D1667; a WR loco renumbered initially to 47082; until 1990 when it moved to Crewe as 47626.

D1566 was never 'Orion' either, as that name was on D1668 also a WR loco renumbered initially as 47083, until 1985 when it moved to Scotland as 47633.

Ha ha I can't even remember writing that post John?. All the Western Region Brush type 4s were in the 1600 series from memory and were very rare if ever seen on the Eastern Region in the late 1960s and early 1970s?. As previously mentioned by me I am 100% certain I remember seeing the Brush type 4 named Atlas in two tone B.R. green livery passing through Hatfield station on a southbound oil train (large oil tanks) running along the Up slow line sometime during 1969. The originally named B.R. Brush type 4s were pretty rare birds to be spotted on the Eastern Region out of Kings Cross during the late 1960s and into the early 1970s from memory?.

The Brush type 4s regularly seen on the Kings Cross area during the late 1960s and into the early 1970s were-

Some of the early numbered 1100 series along with the early numbered 1500 series and some of the 1700 series and finally some of the 1900 series were to be seen on the Kings Cross area. The 1600 series I think were mostly to be seen working on the Western Region and the 1800 series did rarely appear on the Kings Cross area but I think the bulk of the 1800 series Brush type 4s were to be found on the London Midland Region?. It is such along time ago now well over 50 years ago since I did my 'loco spotting' during 1968-1971

FWIW folks, when I was in Kings Cross Divisional Control I recall (maybe sometime around 1975/6?) that on the Loco desk, the card for 47086 Colossus was often seen in our rack over several weeks as occasionally working into/out of the Division. Sorry I have no recollection of which jobs it might've been on though.
Don't think I ever actually set eyes on it.

[Mickey]

All those first generation diesel/electric locos like the Brush type 2s (class 31s) & type 4s (class 47s) were "easy to drive" although stopping could be a different matter if you had 30 or 40+ loose coupled wagons and a brake van on behind the loco on a level or falling gradient in either dry or wet rail conditions but that was taken into account by drivers before hand along the route. Vacuum braked B.R.Mk 1 coaches behaved differently when braking to 'air braked' B.R.Mk 2 & Mk3 coaches because when you applied the train brake on a vacuum braked train their was a slight 2 or 3 seconds delay before the continuous brake 'kicked in' and then you felt the trains brakes slowing the train down but with air braked trains when the train brake was applied the effect was immediate the train would slow down and stop (if you wanted to stop?).

These days I believe all forms of modern railway traction possibly since the beginning of the 1990s have computers and data recording equipment fitted as the norm. From memory from my short time on the loco as a secondman between 1974-75 the Deltics (class 55s) and probably the Brush type 4s (class 47s I can't remember now?) had apart from obviously AWS fitted the locos also had 'vigilance alarms' fitted in the driving cab that would 'sound off' every few minutes when 'in traffic' that the driver had to cancel himself with his foot otherwise the locos and probably the trains continuous brake would be activated and applied. Sometimes it was quite noisy riding in those diesel loco cabs in days gone by on the mainline with the loco working 'flat out' from the noise of the 'locos power plant' (engines) a few yards behind where you was sitting in the cab and also with the AWS bell continuously ringing at green colour light signals as you approached them or a semaphore distant signal that was showing 'off' at clear or also conversely the AWS horn would blast off in your ears which was LOUD approaching a double-yellow or a single yellow colour light signal or a semaphore distant signal that was 'on' at caution as well and then the 'vigilance alarm would all of a sudden go off as well at the same time for god sake!!.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Don't forget the 'EQ' brake fitted to quite a few Brush 2's (and other locos) in the early 70's. They were OK, but seemed a bit Hit and Miss. You used to get a loud 'Whooshing' sound when you started to brake, nothing happen for a while then everything happened at once, because nothing happen after applying the brake, you had a tendency to apply it a bit more, the result was a unexpected stop where you didn't want it. They didn't last long.

manna

[Mickey]

Some of the Finsbury Park class 31s (the blue livered locos I am referring to when I was a secondman at Kings Cross during 1974-75) had ETH (Electric Train Heating) equipment fitted that was worked off a small square'ish metal box mounted in either cabs of the loco between where the driver and secondman sat which I presume was to facilitate heating the B.R.Mk2 & Mk3 coaches that were electrically heated when bringing them in empty from Hornsey carriage sidings into 'the cross' especially during the autumn and winter months. I assume once the shunter had 'coupled up' the screw coupling and both the air brake and main air reservoir pipes between the loco and leading coach he would then take the 'jumper cable' that carried the 'electrics' from the loco and plug it into the leading coach anyway once that was done the driver simply pressed a 'start button' on the ETH box in the locos cab.

I think the class 31 locos that had ETH fitted were possible designated as class 31/3 but I am not really sure about that without looking it up?.

Something that I remember when I was a secondman at 'the cross' was when a diesel loco was 'running light engine' it was normal practice back then amongst ALL drivers to slow down and stop the loco via the 'locos own holding brake' that was worked off a small brake handle in the desk immediately in front of the driver but I remember hearing from a locoman that really the locos 'vacuum brake handle' that was also on the desk slightly to the left of the driver should really be used even when running 'light engine' instead of the locos own holding brake anyway I never saw any driver at Kings Cross in my time using anything but the locos own holding brake to slow down and stop the loco while running light engine. By the way as well as slowing down and stopping a class 31 when 'running light engine' the same applied to the class 55 Deltics, the class 47s, the few class 46 'Peaks' that were at Finsbury Park and the few class 40s that were still knocking around back in 1974-75.

[rockinjohn]

Think the ETH Brush type 2 was coded 31/4, their was a requirement for them in the NW area eg. Manchester /Blackpool/Chester& Cambrian line workings &branded then followed by the EE type3 for the same duties.jj