Gresley B17 Sandringham/Footballer class

[neildimmer]

I have added a new collection featuring the Gresley B17, "Sandringham" / "Footballer" class

By 1926, the former GER B12 class locomotives were no longer able to cope with the heaviest express passenger trains on the Great Eastern Main Line between London and Cambridge, Ipswich and Norwich. Yet Gresley was unable to use his larger classes due to severe weight restrictions on the line. The requirement for a lightweight yet powerful 4-6-0 proved to be difficult to achieve.
Design
After several unsuccessful attempts by Doncaster Works to satisfy Gresley's specification, the contract for the detailed design and building of the class was given to the North British Locomotive Company in 1927. They used several features from a batch of A1 Pacifics they had built in 1924. The cab, cylinders, and motion had all been copied directly or slightly modified. Most of the boiler design was taken from the LNER Class K3 2-6-0 and LNER Class O2 2-8-0 designs. Darlington Works provided drawings for the bogies, and Stratford Works designs for the GE-type 3,700-imperial-gallon (17,000 l; 4,400 US gal), 4-long-ton (4.1 t) tender.
Due to weight restrictions it proved to be impossible for all three cylinders to drive the middle coupled axle, the design used divided drive with the middle cylinder driving the leading axle and was positioned forward above the front bogie. The LNER also ordered some modifications, including an increase in cylinder size from 17 in (432 mm) to 17 1⁄2 in (444 mm), and a lengthening of the firebox by 5 in (127.0 mm) with longer frames, and lighter springs. The design continued to prove problematic and the LNER eventually cancelled a penalty clause in the original contract. The first locomotive, No. 2802 Walsingham was delivered 30 November 1928, thirteen weeks late.
Construction
Ten locomotives were built by the North British Locomotive Company (works nos. 23803-12) during November and December, which were allocated the running numbers 2800-9. Five further orders were placed with Darlington Works between December 1928 and March 1935 for a further fifty-two locomotives to be delivered between August 1930 and June 1936. A final batch of eleven were ordered from Robert Stephenson and Company in February 1936 (works nos. 4124-34) for delivery between January and July 1937; resulting in a total of 73 B17s built.
The first ten by the North British Locomotive Company were designated B17, later B17/1. The second and third batches had boilers supplied by Armstrong Whitworth and different springing and became B17/2. The next two batches had different springing and were designated B17/3. However, as the locomotives passed through the works the original springs were replaced by those of the later design and in 1937 the three sub-classes were merged into B17/1. The final Darlington batch introduced in 1936, and those built by Robert Stephenson and Company had 4,200-imperial-gallon (19,000 l; 5,000 US gal), 7.5-long-ton (7.6 t) tenders and were intended for use in the North Eastern area of the LNER: these were designated B17/4.
In September 1937 two locomotives (Nos. 2859 Norwich City and 2870 Tottenham Hotspur) were streamlined in the manner of the LNER Class A4s, renamed East Anglian and City of London and intended for use on the East Anglian train. They were designated B17/5. However, the streamlining was cladding for publicity purposes only and had little effect on the overall speed of the locomotive. By 1951 both engines had been stripped of the streamlining altogether.

2870 City of London & 2859 East Anglian the 2 streamlined Gresley B17-5 Sandringham Class 4-6-0s
https://tinyurl.com/dsmd2apx
2859 East Anglian
https://tinyurl.com/3mfzyc9x
2870 City of London
https://tinyurl.com/yhcj4wx5

Neil.
https://tinyurl.com/dsmd2apx

[neildimmer]

I have added a new collection featuring the Gresley B17, "Sandringham" / "Footballer" class
This collection features the Sandringham locos in the LNER era
Including this photo of
2802 Walsingham Eastfield 28th November 1928. First loco of this batch built by The North British Locomotive Co (NBL), Nameplate fitted in wrong position
https://tinyurl.com/mywmwns2
&
2800 Sandringham unknown display location
https://tinyurl.com/7exhyt3f
also this one of a renamed loco
2858 The Essex Regiment (previously Newcastle United) Gresley B17 Sandringham Class 4-6-0s
https://tinyurl.com/9x4nmk8w
Full collection starts here with
2801 Holkham at Handsworth with a Continental Boat Express 15th June 1935
https://tinyurl.com/nnvvjaxt

Neil.
https://tinyurl.com/mywmwns2

[neildimmer]

I have added a new collection featuring the B17 Sandringham/Footballer class
This collection features the ‘Footballers’ in the LNER era
Including this one of my local club Huddersfield Town
2853 Huddersfield Town undergoing repairs unknown works or date
https://tinyurl.com/tp3ubk8k
Full collection starts here with
1655 Middlesbrough at Stratford c1947
https://tinyurl.com/5bujedzz

Neil.
https://tinyurl.com/tp3ubk8k

[StevieG]

"I have added a new collection featuring the Gresley B17, "Sandringham" / "Footballer" class
This collection features the Sandringham locos in the LNER era .... "

" .... 2800 Sandringham unknown display location
https://tinyurl.com/7exhyt3f .... "

" .... Neil.
https://tinyurl.com/mywmwns2"

2800 in this one is in Angel Lane Goods Yard neildimmer, the signal box in the background being Stratford Eastern Junction.

[neildimmer]

I have started to add a lot of new photos of Gresley’s B17 ‘Sandringham & Footballers’ design

Just 1 new photo of the locos that were streamlined and looked like a mini A4
2859 East Anglian unknown location (streamlined as Class B17-5 Jun 1936. Rebuilt de-Streamlined as sub Class B17-6 Jan 1951)
https://tinyurl.com/2eyf8sfs

Neil

[neildimmer]

I have started to add a lot of new photos of Gresley’s B17 ‘Sandringham & Footballers’ design
I have added 7 new photos to the Gresley B17 'Sandringham' collection in the LNER era
Including this photo of
2832 Belvoir Castle unknown location Gresley B17 Sandringham class (later rebuilt as B2 by Thompson)
https://tinyurl.com/8yw9akff
new photos start here with
1638 Melton Hall unknown
https://tinyurl.com/2ustf5rw
to
2840 Somerleyton Hall
https://tinyurl.com/3fhn9up6

Neil
https://tinyurl.com/8yw9akff

[neildimmer]

I have started to add a lot of new photos of Gresley’s B17 ‘Sandringham & Footballers’ design

I have added new photos to the Gresley B17 'Footballer’ collection in the LNER era

Including this rare photo of
2870 Tottenham Hotspur only carried this name for 4 months from May 1937 to September 1937
https://tinyurl.com/skfrpayk

New photos start here
https://tinyurl.com/3dk86c9j

Neil

https://tinyurl.com/skfrpayk

[neildimmer]

I have started to add a lot of new photos of Gresley’s B17 ‘Sandringham & Footballers’ design

I have added over 90 photos to the Gresley B17 ‘Sandringham’ class collection in the B.R. era

Including this photo taken in Yorkshire
61633 Kimbolton Castle Sheffield Victoria
https://tinyurl.com/8bcbe5vn

Full collection starts here with
61600 Sandringham Liverpool St
https://tinyurl.com/vwtpcr7s
to 61610 Honingham Hall
https://tinyurl.com/575hchcr
to 61620 Clumber Cambridge June 1960
https://tinyurl.com/3njaat95
to 61626 Brancepeth Castle March 12th March 1950
https://tinyurl.com/3sx8b62j
to 61636 Harlaxton Manor Doncaster 24th May 1952
https://tinyurl.com/4pakj5e2
to 61641 Gayton Hall March
https://tinyurl.com/3syrbrwp
to 61670 City of London Ipswich
https://tinyurl.com/h4cc2txc

Neil
https://tinyurl.com/8bcbe5vn

[neildimmer]

I have started to add a lot of new photos of Gresley’s B17 ‘Sandringham & Footballers’ design
In September 1937 two locomotives (Nos. 2859 Norwich City and 2870 Tottenham Hotspur) were streamlined in the manner of the LNER Class A4s, renamed East Anglian and City of London and intended for use on the East Anglian train. They were designated B17/5. However, the streamlining was cladding for publicity purposes only and had little effect on the overall speed of the locomotive. By 1951 both engines had been stripped of the streamlining altogether

I found this photo mixed in with the ordinary B17’s as it has gained its B.R. number, the only photo I have of these 2 locos with B.R. number
61659 East Anglian at Cambridge
https://tinyurl.com/3y9k59tc

Neil

https://tinyurl.com/3y9k59tc

[jwealleans]

61659 at Cmbridge shows that when it was repained green after the war. they didn't reinstate the parabolic curve, but did a straight line down the smokebox as on the early green A4s.

[neildimmer]

I have started to add a lot of new photos of Gresley’s B17 ‘Sandringham & Footballers’ design
This final collection features the locos named after Football teams in the B.R. era
Including this loco named after my local team
61653 Huddersfield Town on March shed 8th April 1959
https://tinyurl.com/yc7ja9mz
Full collection starts here with
61650 Grimsby Town
https://tinyurl.com/2p97jtdm
to
61654 Sunderland unknown location
https://tinyurl.com/4r5fnhyf
to
61662 Manchester United at Grantham c1951
https://tinyurl.com/2nas49ez
to
61672 West Ham United Hackney Downs 27th June 1957
https://tinyurl.com/2punubjb

Neil
https://tinyurl.com/yc7ja9mz

[neildimmer]

Thompson again messing with Gresley locos
On Thompson's succession to Gresley in 1941, he quickly initiated a wide-ranging standardisation plan.
In 1942, initial plans for these rebuilds kept the Gresley appearance but increased the boiler pressure to 220psi. Rebuilds did not start until 1945, by which time the cylinders had been repositioned slightly. This resulted in the bogie moving forward by 5in. The boiler pressure was raised slightly to 225psi and was of the Diagram 100A type from the Thompson B1 design
Ten members of the three-cylinder B17 'Sandringham' Class would be rebuilt as two-cylinder Thompson B2s.
I have added just 1 new photo to this collection
61644 Earlham Hall ex works unknown location
https://tinyurl.com/2p89jzu6
Full collection starts here with LNER era locos
1607 Blickling
https://tinyurl.com/y97uhmd7
B.R. era starts here with
61603 Framlingham unknown location
https://tinyurl.com/4n5ksv5b
to
61616 Fallodon
https://tinyurl.com/59t9mntr
to Royal Train loco
61671 Royal Sovereign
https://tinyurl.com/5edjw6p5

Neil
https://tinyurl.com/2p89jzu6

[Norton Wood]

Question Regarding the B17's & their liveries.

So I have noticed in a number of these photos, of two different panels on the Outside Cylinder.

A Standard Black Cylinder with Red Lining OR the Cylinder with an Apple Green Pannel with a White line surrounding this.

My question is, was there a pattern to this, ie Doncaster/Darlington, etc adding extra flares to their out-shopped loco's?

I'd love to understand why that is?

Thanks
Tom

[jwealleans]

You've put your finger directly on it. Black cylinders (red lining on them is another question) from Doncaster, green panel from Darlington.

There has been a separate discussion about the red lining which has tentatively concluded that Doncaster began to apply it sometime in the late 1930s, around the time the V2s began to be built. All painting specs we've found up to now show plain black.