Brake Vans

[mojo36]

In the pre second world war era what would be the position of brake vans in a set of coaches?
Would there be a brake coach at each end of a long set to avoid turning at the trains destination?
Where there cases of a brake in the middle of a set for when the train was split as at Leeds for Bradford/Halifax?
Maurice C.

[jwealleans]

There was at least one brake vehicle in each portion of a train. When I started building the carriages for Grantham I spent what seemed like months just building BCKs. If you look at the contemporary carriage workings (Robert Carroll's group on Groups.io is your best starting point) you'll get an idea.

Here's one example of a train we modelled for Grantham, the 13:40 off KX, I think from the 1938 CWN:

XBV 4078 GN D301 York 32ft 6w BV
BCK (3/3) 4378 GN D176 1906 Sheffield GN built
BCK (2/4) 42872 D175 1936 York
BTK (6) 41361 D178 1936 York
TK 41583 D115 1938 Scarborough
BFK (5) 43177 GN D97 1910 Scarborough GN built 10ft bogies
RTP 43036 GN D68 Scarborough GN 12w 42 seat
RFK 41697 GN D78C 1914 Scarborough GN
BCK (2.5/3.5) 4223 GN218BB 1915 Bridlington GN
BTK (4) 41351 D114 1929 Ripon
TK 41045 D115 1935 Ripon
TO 4152 D27A 1929 Ripon ‘diner’ so 48 seats
RFK 1216 D144 1934 Ripon other set had 1217
BFK (5) 41 GN D98 1913 Ripon GN 10ft bogies

I think this includes the Saturdays only stock, as there are two Restaurant Cars, but in a 14 carriage train there are 7 passenger brake vehicles and a brake van (which was used for laundry, not luggage). That is not unusual for the time.

There was an instruction that brake vehicles were to be placed with the van section outermost, to protect passengers in the event of a collision, but this was not always the case (and they might be marshalled to suit the next train they were joined to rather than this one).

[65447]

It depends which Area or Section of the LNER and the type of service.

The example JW has offered is typical of an East Coast-style working that was comprised of portions for the various destinations noted (5 in this instance); each portion required a Brake.

By the 1930s, the LNER traffic operation was moving away from that sort of formation in favour of fixed sets scheduled to run at regular intervals between two points, in which case only one Brake might be necessary and at the most two, one at each end, plus additional vans as required if there were substantial quantities of parcels or luggage being conveyed.

Secondary services, at least on the GE Section, might have only one Brake, which could be towards the middle of the formation of between 2 and 5 or 6 carriages. The rules tended to differ in accord with the custom and practice of the pre-grouping company and a Brake at each end was not mandatory.

Apart from the aforementioned carriage workings, contemporary photographs will provide a good idea as Brakes are reasonably well recognised.

[Mickey]

No doubt sacrilege to say on a LNER forum but I always had a liking for the LMS type of brake vans seen around the railways in B.R. days over the more common brake vans that were seen on the Eastern Region between the 1950s-1980s.

[mojo36]

Many thanks for the informative replies which is of great help.
Maurice C.

[65447]

No doubt sacrilege to say on a LNER forum but I always had a liking for the LMS type of brake vans seen around the railways in B.R. days over the more common brake vans that were seen on the Eastern Region between the 1950s-1980s.

Are you meaning Goods brake vans? This topic (although not necessarily explicit) is about Passenger brake vans...

[Mickey]

No doubt sacrilege to say on a LNER forum but I always had a liking for the LMS type of brake vans seen around the railways in B.R. days over the more common brake vans that were seen on the Eastern Region between the 1950s-1980s.

Are you meaning Goods brake vans? This topic (although not necessarily explicit) is about Passenger brake vans...

I was referring to 'Goods brake vans' after just seeing the topic heading "Brake Vans" which I always assume is a 'Goods' brake van?.