G.N.R. Stirling 174 class large 0-6-0.

[65447]

I seem to remember that there was a drawing in the 70's in Railway Modeller of this loco
I cant seem to find it at the moment. Does this show that feature it would be a guide.


Paul

The BRMNA listings are not that precise but might it be this one, as it is the only one that appears to fit the bill?

Stirling large goods, 0-6-0 DR RM NOV 1973

[Atlantic 3279]

A little before my first purchases of RM, but that would be interesting to see, if drawn by somebody with the right knowledge and ability.

[john coffin]

Pretty sure it was one of a series by Drake Brookman (something like that) wjicj I think are
generally pretty good. They could also have been Ken Werret, but don't think so.

Paul

[john coffin]

Perusing my book collection, I came across Nock Pre Grouping Scenes vol 2
The Great Northern.

on page 24 is a picture of 145,same class as 174, not necessarily to early, but definitely with a flat
smokebox and door.
However, on page 25, is a picture of A142, one of the West Riding Coal Engines built around 1883,
the photo is not perfectly square, but it does imply that the smokebox door appears to be sloped.
Which is interesting, since Bird does not show that at all.

Paul

[Atlantic 3279]

Interesting observation regarding the possible sloping front on the West Riding loco.

I wonder if that picture of 145 that you found might be the same one that appears in Groves' GN Loco History and in the relevant issue of Locomotives Illustrated. If so, I further wonder whether there is any photograph that shows any other example of the 174 series, or possibly 145 but from the other side.

[john coffin]

Just checked, Graeme, and it is not the same picture, and also is the other way facing, with two crew members.
No sure about the LI version.

will see what else I can find

Paul

[Atlantic 3279]

Many thanks. Some of us (such as I) evidently have to be lead by the nose at times: Even when I'd read your further comment about that photograph I managed to think "it's a shame I don't have that book". Then I started to think properly, for a change, and went to look at the relevant section of my book shelves, and there was the book!
I'm now unable to decide which one of my oversights has been the more stupid. Failing to look for that book when I read your first comment about the picture, or failing to check for and to look through all relevant books when I was first seeking more information on the 174 series .

[john coffin]

At least you could find your copy Graeme, I still don't know where some of mine are,
they all seem to scurry off and hide when trying to check some facts

Paul

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks to some useful by products of a bit of work I did for a fellow modeller in the first half of this year I've been able to make an easier-than-expected start on building a model of one of these locos: https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic. ... 91#p143191
I'll add more information about the model to that thread eventually.

[manna]

G'day Gents

Just found this in my 'Documents', taken near 'Crouch End' No 745, the first wagon is interesting, as it seems to have one large tarp covering two wagons, on one very long wagon.

manna

[jwealleans]

Twin bolster pair in use as flats, you'd guess.

[Hatfield Shed]

The sides look too tall for most bolster wagons, so I'd suggest a pair of the GN's very common 'Colwick' low dropside opens, with a long sheet over both for some reason. (Of course the load could have come from elsewhere in a different railway's wagons.)

Look at that mountain of coal on the tender! There's a crew determined not to run short.

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks to the kindness of A. N. Other I now have a copy of the RM 1973 article and drawing for the 174 class, and there's mention of yet another drawing that appeared in "Engineering" in 1872. The drawing in RM shows the same sloping smokebox front seen on the official 1871 Doncaster drawing, fairly conclusively not present in my judgement in the two (1880s?) photographs I have at present.

[Hatfield Shed]

... The drawing in RM shows the same sloping smokebox front seen on the official 1871 Doncaster drawing, fairly conclusively not present in my judgement in the two (1880s?) photographs I have at present.

Suggests the well known event of a difference between 'as drawn' and 'as constructed'. Very odd that this detail should be altered from the usual run of GN designs, since Sturrock got the bit between his teeth.

Too late now to identify the member of D.O. staff that might have been pushing this idea. There was active concern at the time for equalising the gas flow - and thus the wear rate - across the tube bank, and I have wondered if having a sloping front to the smokebox, and thus more volume at the bottom of the smokebox, was proposed as a potential solution, but documentary evidence for this has yet to come my way. (What proved to be the effective solution was to move the blastpipe aperture much lower than had previously been typical, and to extend the chimney petticoat downward to match.)

[Atlantic 3279]

Some time ago, when I first saw the sloping front on the Doncaster 174 drawing, I wondered whether any loco built for the GNR had ever featured such a thing. I had a vague suspicion based on sketchy memory that one of the very variable designs (or general specifications for contrators) produced under Sturrock, or one of the rebuilds of even earlier locos, might have been like that, but on checking Groves' first volume again I found nothing.