Caledonian Road Goods Depot

[StevieG]

Have you seen in here pjgregory ?

https://www.reelstreets.com/films/ladykillers-the/

[pjgregory]

Hi StevieG

Thanks for the link. I have now done a lot of research on the Goods Yard in preparation for making my model and have looked at The Ladykillers film in some detail, together with other images and videos. There are also the operating notes and recollections that you and other have posted here. I have now make a second video showing the results of my research so far. You might find it interesting.

https://youtu.be/rwa8FYht7bY

PaulG

[Mickey]

If that old house that was featured in the 1955 film The Ladykillers film had been a real house that would have been great having that railway line right outside the back door. According to a dvd that features some 'outtakes' of the 1955 film that single track line outside the back door is referred to as a 'feeder line' between Kings Cross Goods yard and the Caledonian road Goods yard plus you had the high up panoramic view of Belle Isle featuring Kings Cross Goods yard with steam locos arriving and departing from Top shed along with freight trains arriving and departing Kings Cross Goods yard plus passenger trains passing through Belle Isle 'down below' in and out of Kings Cross and North London line passenger and freight traffic crossing over the tall North London line bridge.

[pjgregory]

In the other thread on this topic

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic. ... 1&start=15

StevieG posted this extract from the operating instructions for the line.

WORKING BETWEEN GOODS & MINERAL JUNCTION AND CALEDONIAN COAL YARD.
The Single line between Goods & Mineral Junction and Caledonian Coal Yard is worked in accordance with the Regulations for Working Single lines by One engine in Steam, etc. and the Train Staff is kept in Goods & Mineral Junction box.
An engine must not enter upon nor foul, or be upon any portion of the line between Goods & Mineral Junction and Caledonian Coal Yard or Sidings without the Train Staff (which Fireman must obtain from Signalman) being on engine.
Each train must have a brake van, with a Brakesman or Shunter in it, at each end.

When passing over the Single line between Goods & Mineral Junction and Caledonian Coal Yard and Sidings, the engine must be at the south end of train.

Before leaving the yard or sidings, the Brakesman or Shunter must put on and secure the brake of van, and whenever the load exceeds ten wagons the brakes of three of the wagons on the train must be pinned down. One of the Brakesmen or Shunters must hold the facing points on Single line when engine or train has to descend incline.
When engine has returned from Caledonian Coal Yard or Sidings to Goods & Mineral Junction box, the Fireman must deliver the Train Staff into the custody of the Signalman there.
There must not be more than twelve loaded or empty wagons with brake van and engine in front when passing down from yard or sidings to Goods & Mineral Junction.

I can understand how and why a train of waggons would be pushed up the incline (feeder line)and then pulled down with the engine at the south and the break van at the north end. However, looking at the outtakes film suggested by Mickey, you can see a break van parked on the incline below the points leading to the reversing spur and factory to the West. Here is an enlargement of a frame in the film.

The next image shows an engine on the line behind the incline. It goes south, stops and then heads north again. Its very difficult to see on the stilll frame because of the smoke, but it is more visible when you scroll back and forward in the film.

I have tried imagining the moves necessary to move waggons in and out of the factory, but I cannot get past the fact that in this situation, the train must have been pulled up the incline, and then returns down with the engine at the north end. Can anyone enlighten me here?

PaulG

[Mickey]

I have occasionally wondered down the years how far the 'feeder line' or lines coming up from Kings Cross Goods yard actually extended as far as?. Did the feeder line end at a buffer stop out of sight at a brick wall?.

[Tim Watson]

Does that help, Mickey?

Tim

[Mickey]

Does that help, Mickey?

Tim

Thanks for taking the trouble of posting Tim but currently the pc I am on has a number of restrictions one being unable to see posted pictures but I shall check your post out on another pc in a day or two thanks.

[lemmo]

Thanks Tim Watson, a wealth of detail to pick through in that pic...

Aside from the operating arrangements, what was the GN thinking of with this branch/depot? It's such an odd arrangement, and an expensive way to carve out territory so close to the massive KX goods yard.

Was the intention to connect to the Metropolitan Cattle Market?

[Tim Watson]

Very much doubt that this yard had any intentions on the Market. That was served by the sidings on the Holloway Bank, just north of the Caledonian Road on the GN and Maiden Lane on the NLR. There was simply a need for more coal capacity. No one could invent the complexity of tracks that makes up Belle Isle.

Tim

[rockinjohn]

Hi Tim yes indeed it was very much a coal yard, the main Coal Merchant went by the name of Francis who sold out to John Hudson from Dagenham Dock & I think maybe the Co-op Soc. had a couple of trucks based there,I always knew it as Fredrica St Coal Depot,& a possible name change of the street occured @ a later date?Following past threads on this subject, I think mentioned Cadburys or possibly Rowntree's used the yard after the coal departed but the traffic may not have been rail borne by then,cattle never figured in the picture.

[Mickey]

As previously mentioned several years ago my late father who died in 1970 use to be a 'cattle drover' occasionally when he was around 13-14 years old just before the start of the first world war when him and his family were living around the Angel/Barnsbury area. I remember him telling me that himself along with several others would go down to the Holloway cattle dock next to the GNR main line (at Holloway South Up s/box) and get the cattle out of the cattle wagons and then drive them 'on the hoof' along the Caledonian road to the cattle market off 'the Cally' which became the Markets estate in the 1960s.

Also my dad told me that he visited Belle Isle signal box one day but that may have been later on in the 1930s or 1940s so possibly it was Belle Isle Up box?.