LNER G6/NER BTP Questions

[GWRSwindon]

After seeing the page on them here, I can't help but want to know more about these engines. I've a few questions:
- Were the BTP's reliable performers? They had fairly long lifespans, and seemed to do well at their work.
- How was the NER's autotrain system different from similar ones, such as the GWR, LMS, LSWR, and LBSCR?
- Is there a list of withdrawal dates for the engines available anywhere?

[JASd17]

The BTP's LNER Class G6 are covered in RCTS Locomotives of the LNER Part 7, also in Yeadon's Register No.38.

46 locos were still around at Grouping, the last went in November 1929. Although 60 loco had been rebuilt by the NER to J77 0-6-0Ts.

John

[mick b]

I am building a G6 at the moment .

Any suggestions re the colour for the Cab Interior a photo would be good too !! .

I have the Yeadon volume, nothing within, the RCTS is elusive at the moment.

[majormagna]

As I've become aware, cab photos of NER locos are VERY rare.

The BTPs were good performers, though the general size of their trains shrank over time, often being relegated to one or two carriages on autotrains.

The NERs autotrain system is interesting, it used a second air pipe (other than the brake pipe) that provided air to the carriages whistle, and two "universal joints" that I assume worked on a rorational system, one for the regulator, one for the reverser. These joints are visible on the BTP/G6s bufferbeams on so-fitted locos.

There was also a seldom used "communication cord", though what this did, I'm not sure.

[JASd17]

Surely it is the difference between each batch that is most interesting?

A uniform class they were not..

John

[GWRSwindon]

The BTP's LNER Class G6 are covered in RCTS Locomotives of the LNER Part 7, also in Yeadon's Register No.38.

46 locos were still around at Grouping, the last went in November 1929. Although 60 loco had been rebuilt by the NER to J77 0-6-0Ts.

John

As I've become aware, cab photos of NER locos are VERY rare.

The BTPs were good performers, though the general size of their trains shrank over time, often being relegated to one or two carriages on autotrains.

The NERs autotrain system is interesting, it used a second air pipe (other than the brake pipe) that provided air to the carriages whistle, and two "universal joints" that I assume worked on a rorational system, one for the regulator, one for the reverser. These joints are visible on the BTP/G6s bufferbeams on so-fitted locos.

There was also a seldom used "communication cord", though what this did, I'm not sure.

Thank you, this is quite helpful. I don't know of any sources online describing differences between the batches I'm afraid, though it might be in a volume somewhere.

By the way, is it true that one of the BTP's ended up on the Isle of Wight Central?

[kudu]

"By the way, is it true that one of the BTP's ended up on the Isle of Wight Central?"

Well spotted. The answer is "not quite". The loco was built in 1895 for the Marquis of Londonderry's Railway at their Seaham Works (their No 21), designed by George Hardy but "bearing a marked similarity to the NER's Fletcher BTP class". When the NER absorbed the railway in 1900 it became their No 1712 and was almost immediately laid aside in store at Percy Main before being sold to Frazer & Son, Hebburn-on-Tyne, in 1909 for £650. Later that year they sold it on to the Isle of Wight Central for £850, becoming their No 2. But the loco was too heavy and had its tanks cut back, fittings removed and bunker capacity restricted at Newport, taking the appearance as illustrated. Despite the modifications It was still restricted to the Cowes-Ryde route. Other locos seemed to have been preferred, though, and it was loaned to the Freshwater, Yarmouth & Newport Railway but had to be returned after track damage. It was then used as spare before being put into store at Newport in 1914. There it remained, "apparently forgotten", until sold to Armstrong Whitworths in 1917 for £1,200. I don't know what happened to it after that.

Sources: Baxter Vol 5A and Bradley "A Loco History of Railways on the IoW". (Quotes from Bradley.)

Kudu

[GWRSwindon]

"By the way, is it true that one of the BTP's ended up on the Isle of Wight Central?"

Well spotted. The answer is "not quite". The loco was built in 1895 for the Marquis of Londonderry's Railway at their Seaham Works (their No 21), designed by George Hardy but "bearing a marked similarity to the NER's Fletcher BTP class". When the NER absorbed the railway in 1900 it became their No 1712 and was almost immediately laid aside in store at Percy Main before being sold to Frazer & Son, Hebburn-on-Tyne, in 1909 for £650. Later that year they sold it on to the Isle of Wight Central for £850, becoming their No 2. But the loco was too heavy and had its tanks cut back, fittings removed and bunker capacity restricted at Newport, taking the appearance as illustrated. Despite the modifications It was still restricted to the Cowes-Ryde route. Other locos seemed to have been preferred, though, and it was loaned to the Freshwater, Yarmouth & Newport Railway but had to be returned after track damage. It was then used as spare before being put into store at Newport in 1914. There it remained, "apparently forgotten", until sold to Armstrong Whitworths in 1917 for £1,200. I don't know what happened to it after that.

Sources: Baxter Vol 5A and Bradley "A Loco History of Railways on the IoW". (Quotes from Bradley.)

Kudu

Thank you, I was confused when I found the 1895 date for No. 2's construction. I also notice the cab is more square instead of the more rounded Fletcher cab.

[majormagna]

Indeed, though it was significantly rebuilt (as stated by kudu). The photo below shows the locomotive as it appeared in the Earl of Londonderrys Railway service. Note the considerably larger side-tanks and chaldron buffers.

[GWRSwindon]

Was the G6 considered a back tank? It seems to be the case, but I wanted to check.

[majormagna]

Was the G6 considered a back tank? It seems to be the case, but I wanted to check.

I'd say so, it's why the NERs classification for them is sometimes (though rarely) stated as "Back Tank Passenger", instead of "Bogie Tank Passenger".

[GWRSwindon]

Does anyone know the numbers of the BTPs that were sent to the Highland Railway during the war? Also, does anyone know which of the BTPs worked on the Eden Valley line?

[majormagna]

I'm afraid I don't know which ones were sent to Scotland during the war, any the only BTPs I have evidence of being based at Kirkby Stephen East are Nos. 591, 693, and 1020

[GWRSwindon]

I'm afraid I don't know which ones were sent to Scotland during the war, any the only BTPs I have evidence of being based at Kirkby Stephen East are Nos. 591, 693, and 1020

Ah, thank you, my reason for asking is that I was looking for what engines that were withdrawn in 1926, and I had thought the last BTPs worked on the Eden Valley line.

[jwealleans]

The BTPs came to Guisborough to die. The last one was withdrawn from here in 1929.