Odd request: GCR built, SER operated coach drawing

[lu4472ke]

A freind has a wierd request:


"Hello everyone, I'm doing historical research into South Eastern Railway company carriages, and there was one, South Eastern number 1988, constructed by the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway, in 1881, to a Lavatory Tri-Composite (downrated to First and Second just prior to entering traffic) design. The lavatory compartment was a 'Jack and Jill' arrangement, accessible from both first class compartments. It was initially carried on a 28' Cleminson pattern wheelbase, but later altered to bogies at 23' centres. It was 38' long, teak-construction, and 11' 5'' tall at the apex of its arc roof (Full details available in Gould, Bogie Carriages of the South Eastern and Chatham Railway, Oakwood Press, Oxford, p. 21) . I was wondering if any similar or identical carriages were built for the GCR/MS&LR, and whether any drawings or diagrams are extant? I believed it might have been similar to this carriage from 1890 in terms of panel style, but I'm not too sure. Anything could be of help. Many thanks, Alexandra"

[AVSRailwaysUK]

A freind has a wierd request:


"Hello everyone, I'm doing historical research into South Eastern Railway company carriages, and there was one, South Eastern number 1988, constructed by the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway, in 1881, to a Lavatory Tri-Composite (downrated to First and Second just prior to entering traffic) design. The lavatory compartment was a 'Jack and Jill' arrangement, accessible from both first class compartments. It was initially carried on a 28' Cleminson pattern wheelbase, but later altered to bogies at 23' centres. It was 38' long, teak-construction, and 11' 5'' tall at the apex of its arc roof (Full details available in Gould, Bogie Carriages of the South Eastern and Chatham Railway, Oakwood Press, Oxford, p. 21) . I was wondering if any similar or identical carriages were built for the GCR/MS&LR, and whether any drawings or diagrams are extant? I believed it might have been similar to this carriage from 1890 in terms of panel style, but I'm not too sure. Anything could be of help. Many thanks, Alexandra"ms-l1.png

Hello everyone,

This was my request. Initially I had thought it wasn't worth my while creating an account on the LNER forum as I am not an LNER modeller, however, due to the high prevalence of LNER and its constituents' stock appearing on the Southern Railway and likewise, its pregrouping counterparts, it seemed worthwhile to generate a presence on here to, with luck, obtain some more accurate and specialised knowledge on the cross-company traffic.

I hope that's alright, I'd hate to be an interloper and not offer anything in return!

Anyway - I look forward to hopefully hearing some responses from you all, especially as regards the potential GCR operations of similar or sister carriages to the one forming the basis of this thread. How interesting that designs crossed regions, although I suppose that oughtn't be too much of a surprise with the GCR and SER's connections.

- Alex

[kimballthurlow]

Hello Luke,
I sent a Private Mesaage via this forum.
You will need to check your Private Messages tab at the top right. I am not sure if you get a notification.

regards
Kimball

[billbedford]

There are diagrams of two similar MS&L 38' coaches in Dow's Great Central Railway vol 2. The panelling syle would have been similar to your photo except that the top corners of the windows had a bigger radius, 4inch IIRC.

[AVSRailwaysUK]

Just a quick revival of this,

I managed to find both the underframe pattern from the carriage's Cleminson days, and what I think is the MS&LR diagram for the compartments and panelling. It's HMRS 407 (one lavatory, top drawing) and the underframe is HMRS 3226.

[Atlantic 3279]

I've been looking, on and off, at possible schemes for making one of the MS&LR 1878 bogie tri-composites with 41' 6" body length, but those examples had no lavatory, so I don't think there's anything I can usefully share with you, but good luck anyway.