Hull to Hornsea motive power

[John B]

Hi there,

Just a long shot I know but does anyone on the forum know about the classes of locomotive that used to run on the old Hull to Hornsea line in East Yorkshire?

I have done some research, mainly from the few meagre books I have on East Yorkshire railways.

Here's the list as it stands at the moment, I have also added a second list of "probable" classes mainly based on locomotives recorded on the Hull to Withernsea and the Hull to Bridlington/Scarborough lines as well as photographic evidence of them around Hull Botanic Gardens and Dairycoates sheds etc.

Positively Identified from photographs
1. Thompson class L1 2-6-4 Tank
2. Raven class A8 4-6-2 Tank
3. Gresley class V1 2-6-2 Tank
4. Stirling? class J23? 0-6-0 Tender (Ex H & B - needs verification)
5. Ivatt class C12 4-4-2 Tank

Identified from photographs/internet
1. Robinson class A6 4-6-2 Tank
2. Gresley class D49 4-4-0 Tender
3. Thompson class B1 4-6-0 Tender
4. Robinson class A5 4-6-2 Tank
5. Worsdell class J73 0-6-0 Tank
6. Worsdell class G5 0-4-4 Tank
7. ??????? class J25 0-6-0 Tender
8. Riddles class WD 2-8-0 Tender
9. Ivatt class Mogul 2-6-0 Tender ?? (Poor photographs)

These lists are not conclusive and the inclusion of WD's for Hornsea is pure supposition as I saw them on most other lines in the area and they would seem likely.

The H & B engines are intriguing because they were both photographed together at Hornsea station and they both show well developed domes yet retained the usual Stirling cab design.

Any help/clarification would be most wlecome.

Many thanks

John B

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[Colombo]

John,

I am from North Yorkshire and witnessed some of what ran on the East Yorks branch lines in the 1950s. I can see nothing at all wrong with your two lists and can think of only one possible omission. It is quite likely that the D20s based at Hull would also have worked on the line.

I have photographs taken by a friend of branch passenger trains on the Withernsea line hauled by a G5, an A5, both bunker first, and an Ivatt Class 4 tender first. Clearly the turntable was not in use at the time.

On the next page in my album there are two not very clear photos by the same friend taken around a NER water tower which has a wind pump on the top. In the foreground are an L1 and, I think, a Fowler class 3 or 4 tank, in each case on a turntable beside a main line. Do you know of such a water tower at Hornsea or Withernsea?

Colombo

[John B]

Colombo,

Many thanks for your response.

You may have second guessed that I was looking at steam engines only for my lists but I am sure you are right about the D20's.

There were DMU's of course and I have a book with a photo in of the first DMU being trialled shown passing Wilmington in Hull dated August 1956.
I guess diesel started replacing steam a few years earlier than I had thought.

At the Hornsea town station there was a large water tank on the right of the tracks (it had a criss cross pattern) just before you entered the Hornsea Town station proper.

The photograph I have shows a strange structure on top of the tank, it does not look like a wind pump of the type usually found in the area (with blades set in a windmill like pattern) but more like a light steel frame with two curved iron sheets set or suspended inside the frame. On reflection I think it maybe a pump as the two iron sheets look as though they could rotate inside the frame Hummm!!! Colombo, where is the turntable in your photograph in relation to the station and the water tank?

The turn table was also on the right and was located immediately behind the station buildings, bits of the stone turn table surround were still there when I left Hornsea three years ago in early 2003!

Cheers

John

[Colombo]

John,

The D20 class locomotives that I was referring to were Worsdell NER Class D20 4-4-0s, the last of which was withdrawn in 1957.

I have managed to contact my friend who took the photographs of the windmill water pump on the top of an NER water tower, which he confirms was at Hornsea. He also confirms that ex-LMS locos used to visit Hornsea.

He is just setting up his PC at present and when he is on line, he may be a good contact for you. He has built a model of Hornsea station himself.

Colombo

[John B]

Colombo,

Many thanks for your very informative response.

It's good to add the Worsdell D20's and ex LMS locomotives to the lists as if I find a model of one I can incorporate into the model of the Hornsea Station layout I am planning on building. I would value the contact with your friend who has a Hornsea layout, I hope you can put us in touch at some time.

The unusual structure on top of the water tower at Hornsea does seem to be a wind pump as you suggested in your private email, I assume this would have been used to lift water into the tower due to the low pressure of town water in Hornsea.

Thanks again

John B

[Tranby1]

John,

According to former drivers/firemem from Botanic, B1's were never used. Your photo must be the exception. What loco was it? Have interest in 61306 in this respect.

Tranby1

[John B]

An interesting point Tranby1.

I have a photograph of an unidentified B1 on the Withernsea line and so made the quantum mental leap that some B1's appeared on the Hornsea Line. I must check on the RA for those lines and the RA category for the B1!?

Tranby is an interesting name, presumably it comes from somewhere near the old H & B works at Springhead west of Hull?

[Tranby1]

John,

Yes, Tranby is deserted village. I am located between this site and teh old H&B line which would have been visible from upper story. This leads to the site of Springhead Works, now a housing estate.

Please let me know B1 number depicted.

[John B]

Tranby1,

Sorry, the photo is not good enough to discern the B1's number, it was passing Hedon Halt with imported timber for Hedon Station on 5th October 1964. It definitely is a B1 though.

Wasn't 61306 the last steam engine to run on the old Hull to York line via Beverley & Market Weighton on 27th November 1965

Tranby Croft must also be in your neighbourhood?

[Tranby1]

Dear Dave,

The B1 is interesting as the drivers had told me that 61306 was employed on these wood trains about the time the Withernsea line closed. Wouldn’t mind seeing the image if possible.

61306 was indeed used on the last Hull-Beverley-York train (good pic in the Hull Daily Mail).

Tranby Croft is close by – now a school.

Best Regards

Tranby1

[John B]

Tranby1,

Here's a very poor copy, scanned from the pages of a Hull Daily Mail steam special, of the B1 on the Hedon timber run.

The other print is a copy of a painting of the infamous Anlaby Road crossing in Hull with "Wildebeeste" running in towards Hull Paragon Station. I spent many a happy day observing stuff like this and the 69 trolley bus in the picture used to run by my house.

[John B]

I have been completing some research on this topic, yes I am still on that soap box - perhaps it's time I got a life!?!?

Here is what I have collated, if anyone else can add to the list or can comment then great!

I have pushed this on as I am getting ready to build my model of Hornsea Town Station though this is difficult without accurate station and track plans. (I have tried the NRM, Ken Hoole Centre, Network Rail all without success - It's time to get inventive) at least there are a couple of locomotives on my list that Bachmann supply.


Locomotives found on the Hull to Hornsea Railway line

Locomotives positively identified from photographs, on the Hornsea lines

1.1 L1 2-6-4T Thompson (Price, page 22, of 67755, en route to
Hornsea & page 53, in LNER Lines of 67766 at Swine)
1.2 A8 4-6-2T Raven (Price, page 50, of 69855 en route to
Hornsea, several of these engines were allocated to Botanic
Gardens shed 53B until March 1953)
1.3 V1 2-6-2T Gresley (Price, page 62, of 67663 at Hornsea
Bridge)
1.4 J23 0-6-0 Stirling, (Price, page 64, of two engines at Hornsea
Town Station – pre 1938)
1.5 C12 4-4-2T Ivatt (Price, page 65, of 67371 at Hornsea Town
Station – There were sixteen of these locomotives shedded in
Hull in 1935)
1.6 Class 4 2-6-0 Ivatt, (Price, pages 55 & 57, of two engines, one
at Swine , the other at Ellerby. Six of these engines were
allocated to 50B – Dairycoates shed in 1964)
1.7 Class 3 2-6-2T Fowler (Photo supplied in a private email
by “Colombo” from the LNER forum of one of these
locomotives taking water at Hornsea Town Station, also
Yeadon, page 98 taken in 1955 when several of these
locomotives were allocated to Botanic Gardens shed 53B)

Possible engines from photos, internet or personal observation

2.1 A6 4-6-2T Robinson (Price, page 18, of 69796 at Botanic
Gardens)

2.2 D49 4-4-0 Gresley, (Nicholson & Yeadon, page 63, of 62763
“The Fitzwilliam” at Hessle Road signal box)

2.3 B1 4-6-0 Thompson, (Personal observation near Hull. Reputed
on the LNER forum not to have run to Hornsea – RA?)

2.4 A5 4-6-2T Robinson (Price, pages 20 and 23, number 69802,
Botanic Gardens on train to Withernsea)

2.5 J73 0-6-0T Worsdell (Price, page 31, of 68361 at Wilmington
goods yard)

2.6 G5 0-4-4T Worsdell (LNER Lines, page 54, of 67337 at Little
Weighton)

2.7 WD 2-8-0 Riddles, (Personal observation around Hull)

2.8 D20 4-4-0 Worsdell, (Nicholson & Yeadon, page 27, of 62396
in Paragon Station, Hull on 29/06/1957)

2.9 A7 4-6-2T Raven (LNER Lines, page 50 69781 at Anlaby Road
bridge, Hull)

2.10 V3 2-6-2T Gresley (Nicholson & Yeadon, page 32 of 67640 at
Hull Paragon Station)

2.11 J71 0-6-0T Worsdell (Nicholson & Yeadon, page 13 of LNER
number 225 at Alexander Dock)

2.12 J39 0-6-0 Gresley, (Nicholson & Yeadon, page 27, of 64914 at
Hull Paragon Station in 1959 & page 52, of LNER number 1509
at Dairycoates on 14/05/1938)

2.13 J25 0-6-0 Worsdell, (Nicholson & Yeadon, page 95 at St.
Andrews Dock, Hull)

2.14 2MT 2-6-2T Ivatt, (Yeadon, page 80, of 41262 at Dairycoates
on 27/09/1962)

2.15 J28 0-6-0 Stirling, (Yeadon, page 17, of LNER number 2412
working a Withernsea Express on an evening excursion
between the years 1932 and 1937)

Notes:
· The list does not include every potential engine that could have run on the Hornsea lines, there are too many for inclusion. It is sad that there is so little firm evidence available from research, there must be spotters around with records.

· References include the following books:
1 “An Illustrated History of Hull’s Railways” Nicholson M. & Yeadon W. Irwell 1993 (Referred to as Nicholson & Yeadon in the text)
2 “More Illustrated History of the Railways of Hull” Yeadon W. Challenger 1995 (Referred to as Yeadon in the text)
3 “LNER Lines in the Yorkshire Ridings” Cookson P. & Farline J. E. Book Law/Railbus 2006 (Referred to as LNER Lines in the text)
4 “Lost Railways of Holderness” Price P. Hutton Press 1989 (Referred to as Price in the text)

[jwealleans]

Hi John,

Have you tried contacting Mick Nicholson to see whether he has any material of use to you? I dont' think he is on here but he posts in the Yahoo LNER group.

Regards,

Jonathan

[John B]

Thanks Johnathan, I'll give Mick a shout once my membership of the Yahoo LNER group is confirmed.

Cheers

[bricam5]

I'm new to this forum but on your list of locos on the Hornsea route,you had a J73 0-6-6 tank. This was the Wilmington Pilot engine one of only two goods turns from Botanic Gardens and was used to shunt Wilminton goods yard. The other goods turn on the Withernsea/Hornsea approach was a Sentinel shunter for Stepney goods.

I was fireman on Wilmington pilot for a year and about once a week we got as far as Stoneferry goods (about 1 mile from Wilmington yard)