Cab cut outs on A3s & Banjo / stream lined domes

[Tim Watson]

Is there, by chance, a list of when individual A1/A3s received higher cab cut outs and also the banjo or streamlined dome?

I am wondering what this engine could represent.

It’s probably incorrect for Papyrus, could be Sandwich.

Thanks
Tim

[mick b]

RCTS part 2a gives all the answers. Banjo Domes were only fitted to the A3's 2500 to 2508 inc Sandwich nothing else. Cab cut outs reduced mid 1930's. Dont forget the relevant Tender too.

[Tim Watson]

That’s what I thought. I wondered if the banjo domes were fitted to any others pre-war. RCTS 2a does not make that obvious.

Tim

[mick b]

Banjos No, only pre war as already said, look at the boiler types used. Blame Hornby for fitting a banjo to 1000's of models !!

[greenglade]

As Mick states, mid 30's for the higher cab sheets, I suspect a little later for Papyrus as there are photos of her in 1935 still showing the lower cab side sheets, 4472, for example, was circa 1935...you also need to consider L or R hand drive, A1's being R/H from new, IIRC, A3's the opposite. Some A1's were still R/H drive in the early 50's. I don't have 2A in front of me but I suspect Papyrus didn't have a banjo dome while in LNER livery... I could be wrong... You see a lot of models showing 4472 with a banjo dome in LNER livery, she only had this in preservation, never during her LNER 'green livery' career, perhaps never 'full stop' I'd have to dig out 2A to be sure.
It's a bit of a minefield, I've yet to see an accurate representation of 4472. My own build also won't be 100% accurate as I have chosen a high sided tender to allow me better access to the cab, plus I prefer the tender to match the loco in regards to the beading and curved side sheets, it just looks better and who's to say that she didn't have one for a day or two while the other was being repaired after failure...:)_ The engine itself should hopefully be accurate although I'm always finding out new things about her.

BTW, your model looks great...

Pete

[Atlantic 3279]

The apparent heights of the cab and chimney to me look rather like the original taller GNR dimensions. Oddly in conflict with the dome cover, high pressure boiler and long travel valve gear.

[greenglade]

The apparent heights of the cab and chimney to me look rather like the original taller GNR dimensions. Oddly in conflict with the dome cover, high pressure boiler and long travel valve gear.

I see what you're saying... I suspect it's just a design drawn by someone who doesn't really know the locomotive class...granted the cab does look a little high, but then it has the ventilator housing on top which wasn't there on the original high cab. Not sure what to make of the spectacle plate windows? However, it does look well made and the painting looks neat too. I suspect that only someone who really knows the class would spot the errors.

Pete

[Tim Watson]

Thanks for all the observations. The cab roof is certainly too high and the spectacle plate windows incorrect. Looking closely at other photos of the model, I think it would be improved by lowering the whole cab a fraction, assuming there is scope to do so. This is a common fault with this model engineer design. As mentioned earlier, the nearest fit would probably be for one of the last eight A3s to be built, certainly not Papyrus.

Tim

[Pebbles]

I will stick my neck out, but from RCTS the following.

1. It is possible to have both long travel valves and the high cab fitted to the first 10.
2. High cabs lasted on some until 1933. It would be very unlikely that the cab cut would have been incorporated into a higher cab.
3. The first 10 with the higher cab didn't receive "New type" tenders whilst still retaining the higher cab, although corridor tenders where fitted to some.
4. The steam collector, which seems the type you have, didn't appear pre-war.
5. Other than the "experimental A3s" the washout plug configuration is for the 94 boiler, that is the A1 boiler.
6. With a revised dome Enterprise No 4480 is a possible candidate, but the tender would be wrong.

[greenglade]

One thing to bear in mind if changing domes is the round dome sits further forward, it's front edge being approx in line with the front of the crank driving wheel not the middle of it as with the banjo dome.

Pete

[Tim Watson]

I went to look at the loco on Friday: it is very well made and should be a good runner. I will be buying it and look forward to modifying / detailing it to be more accurate.

Tim

[greenglade]

Sounds good Tim..can I ask if it has both hydraulic and steam tickets?....not knowing your experience with live steam I ask to ensure you are getting a good deal

Cheers

Pete

[Tim Watson]

It will have Pete - I am purchasing it from a dealer. It has all the Northern Fed paperwork from completion in 2009. It will be stretching it’s legs at Colney Heath (North London’s SME). I don’t have direct experience of small scale rail steam but do of road locos. (https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... resteamrun).

Tim

[greenglade]

NLSME???..you're kidding me, that's my club....I'll probably see you there some time...there are both good and bad dealers...I hope your dealing with a good one...it's a small world isn't it?.....

Pete

[Tim Watson]

I have pm’d you Pete.
Tim