G-Train Locomotive Works / Graeme King Joint Venture - GCR/LNER 4-6-0s - B3/1 & B7 available; B3/2 in progress

[Woodcock29]

Hi Graeme
I would be quite happy if you left the boiler bands off. I generally remove those from w/ m boilers unless they are very well done and use tape during the painting process.
Andrew

[45609]

I’d vote for no boiler bands too. I use thin strips of decal applied after painting the main body colour.

Cheers...Morgan

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all esp G&G

I am also interested in the B3 and B7.
I have two Kay's B2's put aside for conversion to the B3 and B7. I wonder if if would be possible to use a B2 Boiler with the etch, to give greater intrinsic weight?

I am also nervous as I've never built an etched kit.

Looking forward to construction.

Earlswood Nob
(A signalbox near my birthplace)

[Atlantic 3279]

Votes noted and further interest appreciated, thanks.

Should it turn out that there are no bands on the final boiler, then there's a simple way for those who cannot judge things purely by eye (can anybody really do so I wonder) to get boiler bands on in the correct places: mark off on the boiler, from a drawing, along for instance) the top dead centre line, a dot for the position of each boiler band, then cut a truly straight-edged strip of paper, thin card or thin plastic around 10 to 15mm wide and just long enough to wrap around the boiler. Wrap the strip around the boiler aligned with one of the dots, and so that its ends meet accurately. It's then easy to mark a faint and true guide line for a band around whole diameter of the boiler. Others may have pet methods of their own.

It occurs to me that at this stage, for anybody who hasn't read the whole thread, it may be worth stating again that the parts under development cover the locomotive only, not the tender. There are various options that can be considered for the tender. There are a number of Bachmann RTR incarnations of GC tenders if you can get hold of one, including the self-trimming type, or perhaps a suitably tweaked Hornby O1 tender could be used. I notice that PDK offer one variety of GCR tender as a separate etched kit, although it looks to me as if it would need some changes in order to be right for a B3. It may still be possible to get a suitable tender in white metal, perhaps from the Dave alexander range. Worsley Works of course list a GCR Atlantic kit but I don't know if the tender is available separately, likewise the Alan Gibson J11 tender, if indeed the J11 kit can still be had at all. It might also be possible to enquire whether South Eastern Finecast are able to offer the tender from the old Kays / Nu-Cast B2 kit, at least as a starting point for model.

The Judith Edge Models etched kit for a GCR tender sounds most promising to me, for those who want a kit, as according to discussion elsewhere on the web, including comment from Mike Edge*, as recently as last year, it is capable of being built as most or all of the slightly different varieties of GCR "standard" 4000 gallon tender, but not the self-trimming type.

* http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... ?p=2622443 and subsequent entries.

It should be perfectly possible to use a whitemetal Sam Fay boiler, that is what was originally intended when only one loco was planned. a trial of one example of such a boiler on the etched parts of the rest of the loco did reveal a gap between the boiler lower edge and the splashers, but ways could be found to fill that, I'm sure.

[LNER4479]

It should be perfectly possible to use a whitemetal Sam Fay boiler, that is what was originally intended when only one loco was planned. a trial of one example of such a boiler on the etched parts of the rest of the loco did reveal a gap between the boiler lower edge and the splashers, but ways could be found to fill that, I'm sure.

For info, this is the extent of the gap likely to be apparent when using the K's w/m boiler from the B2 kit. The piece of wire is propping the boiler up at approximately the correct height. It is suspected that the gap is due to the thickness of the w/m splashers and hence the top surface of them being higher than they should be (due to the need to maintain inside clearance for the driving wheels).

[Atlantic 3279]

I think I may have a good answer to the question of boiler bands etc. This should make it possible to leave the boiler barrel plain, as preferred by some, while providing a handy time-saver (or maybe in some cases an essential life-line) for modellers who therefore have to apply their own bands in one way or another.

The positions of handrail knobs appear to be standard for all applications of the boiler in its normal form, i.e. for classes B2, B3, B7 & B8. I can therefore put some light pop marks on the master boiler in those positions without causing inconvenience for likely users / uses of the boiler. I can also add a bottom-dead-centre mark or two onto the boiler which will never be seen on assembled locos. I can then produce a correct size pattern for a paper template to wrap around the whole of the boiler barrel (not the firebox and smokebox) so that its edges meet at the bottom-dead-centre marks. The idea is that this template will be marked out with boiler bands, handrail knob positions, top-dead-centre line and dome position. A sharp point pushed gently through the template can then be used firstly to confirm that the template is "in register" with the ready-marked handrail positions on the boiler, and then to mark guide points along the line for true application of each boiler band and to mark the boiler top line and the dome position. Alternatively, the template can be pierced in the desired places before it goes on to the boiler so that no more than pencil marks need be made through the holes. That avoids the risk of raising tiny rings of displaced resin around marks that are over-enthusiastically pricked through the template when it is on the boiler, creating either a poor finish or another rubbing-down chore (which is no good if the paint is already on).
The cautious or very precise modeller will also be able to double-check that all of the transferred marks are right be removing the template and the wrapping it back on inside-out, prior to repeating the application of marks. Should any separate double-marks appear, it is likely that the truest point will be the one that perfectly splits the difference.
The template can also be marked up with a guide-line for trimming the bottom of the boiler so as to sit on the splasher tops of the B3 (or a B2).

It should be a manageable task for almost all to extend the boiler barrel top line marks to provide chimney and safety valve centres, and to use either commercial transfers alone or neatly cut narrow strips of tape, smooth paper, ultra-thin plastic or shim brass etc to create their preferred boiler bands.

[Atlantic 3279]

As a practical test or demonstration of the template idea, I measured the length of the boiler barrel on the model, along with its external diameter, calculated the circumference, checked the circumference by wrapping a strip of paper around the boiler, then produced this, initially marked (on both sides) to show top and bottom centres, handrail positions on boiler centre line, boiler band positions, handrail knob positions, and dome position.

Wrapped as tightly as possible around the boiler and with edges held together by a couple of pieces of tape it was still possible to twist it in order to get the joint centralised along the previously marked bottom dead centre line of the boiler. I then pencil marked the boiler at each end of the top centre line and handrail lines on the template, as well as marking a couple of handrail knob positions on each side with a sharp point. I then removed the template, turned it over so that it wrapped back onto the boiler inside-out compared to the first time, and re-marked the same points. As I imagined, there were slight discrepancies of up to half a millimetre when comparing the two sets of marks. Where this occurred, I split the difference.

While the template was in place I fitted the boiler to the rest of the loco body and traced around the insides of the tops of the splashers, thus producing the necessary guide line for a "first cut" if trimming a boiler to sit on those splasher tops.

Before making any of the marked points "final", I checked by measurement with a rule or by use of dividers, and by eye using a straight edge, that the resultant top centre lines and handrail lines all appeared to be in the right places, running "true" along the line of the boiler rather than running off at a slight angle. All seemed well. Handrail knob positions are now well marked with little dimples.

Remembering that I needed to provide for the possible need for a snifting valve, I found an existing mould and cast one.

No matter what type of smokebox door fastening is fitted, there's a little disc on the door just behind it, so to make the door a bit more complete I added one in 0.005" plastic.

Apart from considering whether to provide other domes and a plant-pot chimney, I think I have now produced all of the necessary patterns for resin parts.

[Atlantic 3279]

For them as looks in the right places, there are now some test castings to be seen:

I'll get the colour mixed in more evenly in the "real" boiler castings. The step on the smokebox front is reinforced by a "deep rooted" cast-in piece of nickel silver strip. It isn't a straightforward task to get a good casting of the boiler, the lower rear corners of the smokebox, the firebox plugs and the firebox lower sides being prone to incomplete casting unless persuasion is used. The sandbox lids are prone to casting imperfections too and are easy to loose or damage. I also expect the parts of the mould that produce these to erode quite quickly, hence the additional mould to provide spares. The "piano front" made such a good job of keeping its head low between the frame tops that somebody forgot to include it in the main mould. Another job to do.......

This was the first casting in the multi-parts mould, now marked up for reference to remind me of which bits are reluctant to fill with resin. Above it is the separately cast snifting valve, with cast-in wire stalk to facilitate strong attachment to the boiler.

[LNER4479]

Great stuff, my friend. Not long now before we should a fully rigged up version - the prototype chassis is all but complete and the second set of footplate/cab well on the way.

[iainkirk]

Has this been on a holiday to Scaleforum?
I knew I should have tried harder to drag myself there...
Looking very tasty mind...

[Seagull]

I have been watching this thread with some interest and also admiration.

Initially I thought that the B3 was not really suitable for my area of interest and I'm still doubtful, however a B2 would be very tempting.

While looking up these I noticed something else, that boiler looks remarkably similar to the one fitted to a certain class of Scottish Atlantic locomotives.

I'm thinking one of Graeme's resin boilers and a set of Worsley Works etches for the Jersey Lilly.
Some of the fittings would have to be scratch built and I cannot work out the source of the tender as yet, if any.

Alan

[Horsetan]

Has this been on a holiday to Scaleforum?...

Certainly has

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all

There should be no problem in filling the gap between the splasher and boiler.

The B7 will probably have a larger gap as the splashers are lower.

Another thought is that some B7's had straight sided cylinders: Last 4 produced and 13 later conversions. Will the kits allow for this?

Great to see such a long desired model being produced.

Earlswood Nob

[Atlantic 3279]

I couldn't go to Scaleforum, in former GC territory, and leave the test-build behind - it would have become terribly lonely and insecure.

An NB Atlantic is an interesting idea. I have no idea whether the dimensions match up.

With correct trimming of either the boiler itself and / or the splasher tops, there should be no gaps to fill, whether on a B2, B3, B7, B8 or (with adaptation, for the more adventurous) a B6.

[LNER4479]

Good morning all

There should be no problem in filling the gap between the splasher and boiler.

The B7 will probably have a larger gap as the splashers are lower.

Another thought is that some B7's had straight sided cylinders: Last 4 produced and 13 later conversions. Will the kits allow for this?

Great to see such a long desired model being produced.

Earlswood Nob

Noted re B7 cylinder variations. Will look into further and discuss with Nick (Easton) who's doing the design for the etches.