What happened in an emergency stop.....?

[drmditch]

in H A V Bullied's 'Master Builders of Steam', page 82, there is an interesting paragraph:-

'.... Bullied was rather concerned that although the rule book demanded a full brake application in an emergency, no driver appeared ever to have made a full application on a fitted freight train. Accordingly one night Bullied set of on a fast down goods, 45 vans and brake hauled by a 2-6-0 which boasted a Flamman speed recorder. .......(at) 60mph approaching Hulme, Bullied gave the word and as planned the driver made a full brake application, then shut the regulator and finally shifted to full forward gear. The engine seemed to stop rapidly, then it was jerked hard forward by the bunching vans, then arrested again as they opened out. The train came to rest in 700 yards, with considerable noise and subsequent adverse comment from the guard. A coupling broke about halfway along the train.

Gresley is quoted as saying-
" I have had an extremely adverse report about the behaviour of a fitted goods. Don't do that sort of thing again. You are not in charge of the department."
But, as Bullied went to leave -
"Have you got the Flamman diagram? We want to learn all we can from the results".

This, or another similar incident is mentioned in Sean Day-Lewis' 'Bullied Last Giant of Steam' on page 75.

I think I have seen another reference elsewhere, but can't locate it this morning. I have also seen a reference to the LNER (or GNR) conducting (perhaps more organised) trials with fitted freights.

It would be interesting to know more. Certainly one of the 2-6-0s being fitted with a speed recorder would imply a certain amount of premeditation. Was the incident as described by H A V Bullied as an example of his father's 'enquiring mind' actually like that?

Also, one wonders if the guard has been warned in advance!

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Sounds like all concerned had a wild ride! Doesn't sound like the Guard was forewarned. And I would think his gymnastics in the van would have put the Olympics to shame!

[jwealleans]

I think I've read that about the GN doing trials - was it after the K1s were introduced and they started regular 60mph goods services? Could be in the FAS Brown book.

[drmditch]

You are right!

F A S Brown page 56 refers to "experiments conducted jointly with his (Gresley's) friend Sir Henry Fowler" in the summer of 1919.
Brown also gives more details:-
The locomotive used was No 1646 (H3/K2).
Tests were conducted on the GN line between Peterborough and Firsby. (I don't think this is the ECML is it?)
Initially tests used 63 vans, then 80 vans, with speeds between 22 and 42mph.
One stop was severe enough to break a coupling.
After modifications to the "brake accelerator valves throughout the train", a train of 100 vans was successfully stopped in an "emergency" brake
application without fracturing a single coupling.
The speed for this last test is not mentioned.

According to RCTS Vol 6A page refers to 1646 being fitted with a Flaman recorder 'about October 1919. It also refers to other H3/K2s being fitted with recorders at other times.

J E Chacksfield in his biography of Fowler, also mentions these tests and states that they were conducted between Peterborough and Spalding.

Bullied had re-joined the GN after his war service in February 1919 (according to H A V Bullied), and initially resumed his pre-war role, before being appointed to the Carriage and Wagon department when Edward Thompson returned ( briefly) to the NER and York.

Obviously, co-operation between departments should not be taken for granted, (as in the age of some of the rails traversed by Mallard in 1938),but in either of Bullied's roles, and allowing for a certain amount of restriction of information, it would seem amazing that Bullied would not have been aware of these tests being carried out.

So, if the incident reported by H A V Bullied did occur, it would seem most likely to have taken place before August 1914.
Could an H2 or H3 achieve 60mph with a full train?

Could these tests also have had implications for the development of the GN Brake Vans?

[Atlantic 3279]

Firsby is (was) the junction for Skegness to the East and Spilsby to the West on the East Lincolnshire line North of Boston. Plenty of straight level track between P'boro' and Firsby, and not too much traffic to disrupt by virtue of the trials (or any unintended consequences).