Daves C & W Works

[Dave]

Well the stores van is now a runner as she is now shod with some MJT bogies.
Just got the ride height to adjust and then painting, oh and the roof to do.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

I do like the stores van, very unusual.

manna

[Dave]

Thank you Manna, I like unusual wagons.
Well the stores van progresses further, a coat of the old Halfords grey primer on the sides
and etch primer on the bogies. The finish I'm looking for for this van is a faded engineers blue
to depict a van about at the end of it's life. So a variously thinned coat of Vallejo 063 Pastel blue
has been applied, I hope it works, in my minds eye I know what I'm trying to achive, a bit like
the van in the pic.

[John Palmer]

As usual some lovely work has gone into this stores van, but I am a bit concerned about your colour matching.

Using Paint.Net I did some colour picking from the photographs showing your blue and that on the prototype in the background with the results shown below.

As can be seen, these place the colours in significantly different positions on the colour wheel and confirmed my impression that your blue tended towards the magenta section of the colour spectrum.

Of course, the results I obtained may be wholly unrepresentative of the model's actual appearance for a variety of reasons - all sorts of conditions that may have affected your photo of the model (white balance in particular comes to mind), or, equally possible, the colour settings on my monitor. Even so, I would be concerned that something in the painting set-up for your model has given it a slight magenta tint not to be found in the adjacent photograph of the prototype (which may itself be unrepresentative of the actual colour!)

Would it be worth taking a couple of additional shots of the model with differing settings of, for example, white balance to see whether they yield something closer to the prototype's blue, which is distinctive but perhaps somewhat elusive. If you then find the model has the slight magenta cast I am seeing some then corrective attention to the paintwork may be worth considering.

Sorry, being hyper-critical but hopefully constructively so.

[mick b]

They were Oxford Blue i.e. Dark Blue even with fading I doubt they were ever Pale Blue and nothing like Turqoise !!

[Robpulham]

Hi Dave,

Vallejo do and Oxford Blue in their range but I found it a bit on the purple side when compared to Humbrol. so I added a bit more dark blue and it looked much better.

[John Palmer]

They were Oxford Blue i.e. Dark Blue even with fading I doubt they were ever Pale Blue and nothing like Turqoise !!

Oh, I disagree! Exposure of a coat of paint to sunlight for long enough is quite capable of fading it to a very light shade indeed, and I think the service vehicle in the background of the photograph of Manna is a case in point. Admittedly blue seems less susceptible to such fading than red; I have seen plenty of cases of the red paint on stop blocks, fire bucket racks and cast notices that has faded to what can only be described as light pink. But blue can and does fade substantially too.

I do concede, however, that I can't recall seeing blue paint acquire a turquoise tint through fading.

[52D]

Yes guys when i was in Saudi for Morris Cranes we took a decision to stop using Golden Yellow Gloss as this soon faded and lost its sheen so we painted the cranes Golden Yellow Matt from the start, after a year outside in the Sun there was no difference between the two, im not saying things are as bad as this in the UK but its definitely worth listening to the posted comments.

[mick b]

Was Pale Blue a BR livery ? The photo appears to a Brake van of some description possibly a Ballast version due to the chimney, not a Stores van.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

I get everywhere, don't I.

manna

[John Palmer]

Ice blue livery was applied to BR 12' WB plywood-bodied fish vans in about 1963-64 (not sure of correct date), replacing their former white livery. I've seen it suggested that this may have been prompted by representations made by the fishing industry that the external filth on white fish vans might lead the public to think their interiors were equally filthy.

The visible features of the van in the Manna photo are a good 'fit' for a LNER ballast brake to Diag. 203.

[2512silverfox]

Service vehicles painted Oxford Blue quite late in the LNER period did have a tendency to degenerate into a true Cambridge Blue in time, especially where they were infrequently used. I can clearly remember several service vehicles visible from a train in a siding at Berwick on Tweed in the late 60s which had degenerated in colour to the extent that the original NE was almost indecipherable.

[Dave]

Wow I've inadvertently stirred up a debate, with some brilliant comments.

Thank you all for taking such an interest.
When I started to build this wagon I did not know they were
withdrawn in the 30's, so this is going to look run down and about
ready to be withdrawn to be became a static store.

John thank you for all the work you have put in on colour matching,
very interesting and you are not being hyper-critical at all. The model
was photographed under artificial lighting which is an adjusted sodium
type and the resulting image does have a magenta hue which in reality
the model does not. I've taken another pic of the model in natural
light only. Since then I've respayed it with a thin coat of Halfords
white primer and I intend to repaint with Precision LNER Engineers
Blue let down with some white to make it paler. Fingers crossed.

Mick, blue does fade badly but is not quite as notorious for fading as red,
but I don't know where you get Turquoise from ?. Powder coated blue for
example, of any hue will fade and become matt very quickly, thats why we
always spec matt blue a bit like 52D's cranes, and I know powder coat is
different. The vehicle in the pic is not a stores van I think it's a
ballast brake. Thanks John for your confirmation.

Rob I agree Vallejo Oxford Blue has a definite purple hue.

Manna you do seem to be getting everywhere.

2512silverfox thanks, you don't have any pics by chance.

I now have the H4 all steel stores van drawings................

[mick b]

Dave

Turquoise again the eye of the beholder, as is another comment of Magenta !!.

I haven't checked withdrawal date of the vans. If its the 1930's then the paint would have been about ten years old at most . Precision Oxford Blue is the best colour as a base, fade as much as you like its your model , can't see it being Cambridge Blue in that time period however .

I never found a lettering layout for my pair , have you any photos of the LNER period ?


H4 is that the 6 wheeler ?

Mick

[Dave]

Good evening Mick.

I take your point about the amount of fading from a repaint in the twenties and it will
be somewhere in between Oxford blue and the photo of the brake. I can see it in my
minds eye, whether it turns out like that is another matter.
No I don't have a lettering layout for LNER days only a copy of D&S instructions which as you will know
shows NER lettering. Dans instructions say their use was discontinued, sometime after grouping.

The H4 is the updated all steel version of the bogie stores van built in 1910.

I have a feeling a blue H3 probably never made it to my time line of the mid 30's and probably the H4 did not either.

Oh well.................