The S&C & Britannia locos

[Mickey]

According to the dvd I was watching the 'Brits' weren't to good a ride for there crews probably as it was pointed out due to them having two cylinders rather than three cylinders which if they had three cylinders it would have probably gave them a smoother ride also there crews initially complained about them being draughty so a heavy duty curtain was provided between the tender and cab.

Also it was said during the same dvd that leaving a side there use on the Liverpool Street-Norwich workings during the 1950s and the Golden Arrow Victoria-Dover boat-train service the 'Brits' when used on passenger services were tended to be used mainly on secondary express passenger services but later on towards the end of there short lives they were used more on freight services where they proved to be quite well suited for the work they under took although with there 6'-2'' driving wheels they were sometimes a bit slow in getting a heavy freight train under way but once they got the train moving they did well.

Mickey

[kudu]

I read that the draughtiness of the Britannias was primarily caused by a major design feature - the cabs were built on to the boiler, not the frames. I don't know how this affected riding. Presumably the Brits were especially criticised because of their higher speeds.

Mickey, I think you've downplayed the role of the Britannias in their prime. Based at Canton, they replaced Castles on expresses like the Red Dragon. They also replaced Scots on Euston-Holyhead expresses and Euston-Manchester when they were based at Holyhead and Longsight. On the ECML they never challenged all those Pacifics but they did take over from B1s on Kings Cross-Grimsby expresses when shedded at Immingham, but you might well classify these as secondary. I'm not sure what the Firths did when they were at Polmadie, which had more than enough Coronations for the main expresses. As for the pair at Stewart's Lane, this was presumably some kind of publicity exercise as the Southern could surely spare a couple of Bulleid Pacifics from their 2-coach trains on the "Withered Arm".

Kudu

[Mickey]

I read that the draughtiness of the Britannias was primarily caused by a major design feature - the cabs were built on to the boiler, not the frames.

Yes that was mentioned on the dvd that I was watching kudu.

I don't know how this affected riding.

As previously mentioned on said dvd it was said that they weren't that great for riding on for there crews and with them being 2 cylinder rather than 3 cylinder locos as well apparently that didn't help there riding qualities either, if they had been 3 cylinder locos they may well have given a smoother ride?.

Mickey, I think you've downplayed the role of the Britannias in their prime. Based at Canton, they replaced Castles on expresses like the Red Dragon. They also replaced Scots on Euston-Holyhead expresses and Euston-Manchester when they were based at Holyhead and Longsight. On the ECML they never challenged all those Pacifics but they did take over from B1s on Kings Cross-Grimsby expresses when shedded at Immingham, but you might well classify these as secondary.

I thought about the Red Dragon kudu but didn't included it but as previously posted the western region locomen didn't like them overall and preferred there Castles. Yes as previously posted as well apparently many of the 'Brits' were rostered on secondary passenger diagrams across all the regions, the former LNER main line for example would prefer to use either a Gresley, Thompson or Peppercorn pacific loco on a main line express passenger diagram rather than a Britannia if they could help it with the same mindset being prevalent on the other regions as well.

As for the pair at Stewart's Lane, this was presumably some kind of publicity exercise as the Southern could surely spare a couple of Bulleid Pacifics from their 2-coach trains on the "Withered Arm".

Yes Peter Coster who appears in said dvd made the same comment about those two 'Brits' nos. 70004 William Shakespeare & 70014 Iron Duke both being shedded at Stewarts Lane Battersea on the southern region to work the Golden Arrow were mainly used for publicity purposes.

Mickey

[kudu]

As I said before, I believe the Britannias were popular with enginemen once they were concentrated at Canton. Besides, popular or not, they did haul Canton's top rank expresses.

Mickey, I was interested in your remarks about rough-riding 2-cylinder locos. Presumably they would have been rougher for the track as well through hammer blow. It set me wondering what other 2-cylinder locos were around on express duties in the 50s/60s. By my reckoning most were indeed 3- or 4-cylinder, but one 2-cyl example springs to mind - the Arthurs. I am also tempted to add the LMS 2P 4-4-0s, which hauled expresses on the Midland main line (provided there was a Jubilee behind to help).

Kudu

[Mickey]

Mickey, I was interested in your remarks about rough-riding 2-cylinder locos. Presumably they would have been rougher for the track as well through hammer blow.

To be honest kudu I am only getting this info off the dvds that I watch and with regards to the 'Brits' it claimed that those 2 BIG cylinders gave those locos a rougher ride for there crews but if they had been 3 cylinder locos it may have gave them a smoother ride (possibly?).

Here is one for you in regards to the B.R. Standard class locos Ron White claimed on another dvd that I was watching about the B.R. Standard class locos in general that probably the most successful other standard design other than the B.R. Standard class 9F 2-10-0 were the B.R. Standard class 4 2-6-4 tanks apparently they were good all round performers on both passenger & freight workings and they were also good looking tank locos as well mainly due to the design of there side tanks that enhanced there overall looks.

Mickey

[StevieG]

One different little (secondhand) anecdote about the Brits, in case of interest : On my moving from Kings Cross to Liv.St. in '89, one of the time-served signalmen there who, as did some Stratford locomen, lived for quite a while in the BR Ilford hostel, told me that some of those who'd been there in times of steam had said they were pleased when they got Brits as on the Liv.St./ Norwich's, they were far more effective at collecting pheasants on the front than their previous locos ; (presumably thanks to the smoke deflectors).

[Mickey]

According to the dvd that I watched on the 'Brits' no.70045 Lord Rowallan was the only member of the entire class of 55 locos to be fitted with oval shaped buffers the rest of the 'Brits' had round shaped buffers although there are pictures of Lord Rowallan being fitted with round shaped buffers during the late 1950s so I presume that Lord Rowallan's original round shaped buffers were replaced at some point probably during the early 1960s with oval shaped buffers.

Mickey