36C studios development thread: an A7 tank and other updates regarding J27, 20, etc.

[65447]

Anyone who understands these things knows not to scale directly off the drawing but to refer to stated dimensions. If the draughtsman has provided a reference scale then that can be used to determine any un-dimensioned measurements by applying a corrective ratio. Other sources can supply additional reference data.

Scaling off drawing may cause problems in normal DO practice when the object being made is larger than the drawing in which case any drawing errors are magnified, but for model work scaling down from a larger scale drawing will diminish errors, hopefully to the point where they are below the tolerances of whatever manufacturing method is being used.

Bill is correct in this, but in this particular instance John's drawings were prepared at the actual scale of 4mm/ft; presumably and once he used photocopying for reproduction the 2mm scale copies were reductions and the 7mm (and 10mm scale?) copies enlargements - which latter would magnify any errors. And of course line thickness does become meaningful.

[Nova]

One thing I intend to do is certain detail components, particularly for wagons that while dated can be improved with a little effort. Wagons like Hornby Lowmac, although the underframe detail leaves a lot to be desired the main body moulding has a reasonable level of detail.

for this I plan to take advantage of Shapeways FXD (Frosted eXtreme Detail) filaments to make detail highly detailed brake rigging to substantially improve Hornby lowmac


there will also be the option to print it brass if you're more concerned about structural strength than fine detail.

I'm also hoping to work with the relevant individuals to make multiple variants of brake rigging. Not just detail differences between different types of Lowmac but also provisions for different couplings such as:

NEM dovetail connectors designed into the print, so you simply fit the part then fit a NEM coupler box with a dovetail connection.

A mounting pad to fit a Kadee coupler box

versions to allow for various finescale coupling systems such as sprung three/screw-link coupling, Dingham Auto couplers, and Spratt & Wrinkle.

a all new lowmac kit is also up for consideration.

finally I plan to eventually obtain a lathe accurate enough to make metal wheels to replace the standard plastic ones fitted to lowmacs

[Dave S]

One thing I intend to do is certain detail components, particularly for wagons that while dated can be improved with a little effort. Wagons like Hornby Lowmac, although the underframe detail leaves a lot to be desired the main body moulding has a reasonable level of detail.

for this I plan to take advantage of Shapeways FXD (Frosted eXtreme Detail) filaments to make detail highly detailed brake rigging to substantially improve Hornby lowmac

there will also be the option to print it brass if you're more concerned about structural strength than fine detail.

Having worked with FUD I wouldn't look to do something such as brake rigging with it, It's very good for items such as buffer shanks and vents but rigging/levers would be too fragile, especially for the thickness that would represent a brake arm. I've not worked with printed brass so could not comment.

For Items such as these is it not "Re-inventing the wheel" ? just poking about the Ambis stand at Stevenage yesterday and they have many excellent etches for this sort of thing.

[Nova]

One thing I intend to do is certain detail components, particularly for wagons that while dated can be improved with a little effort. Wagons like Hornby Lowmac, although the underframe detail leaves a lot to be desired the main body moulding has a reasonable level of detail.

for this I plan to take advantage of Shapeways FXD (Frosted eXtreme Detail) filaments to make detail highly detailed brake rigging to substantially improve Hornby lowmac

there will also be the option to print it brass if you're more concerned about structural strength than fine detail.

Having worked with FUD I wouldn't look to do something such as brake rigging with it, It's very good for items such as buffer shanks and vents but rigging/levers would be too fragile, especially for the thickness that would represent a brake arm. I've not worked with printed brass so could not comment.

For Items such as these is it not "Re-inventing the wheel" ? just poking about the Ambis stand at Stevenage yesterday and they have many excellent etches for this sort of thing.

I did also say there would be the option to print it in brass.

the entire point is that it is essentially a finished piece that requires no prep or assembly, bar painting, to give modellers who are just starting out an easier alternative to working with etched brass. in this instance cut away some plastic and then drop in and glue the required piece.

[Dave S]

I did also say there would be the option to print it in brass.

the entire point is that it is essentially a finished piece that requires no prep or assembly, bar painting, to give modellers who are just starting out an easier alternative to working with etched brass. in this instance cut away some plastic and then drop in and glue the required piece.

I've built/finished 4, 3D locomotives, 3 in FUD and 1 in WSF (a trial) and I'd say that even though they are an advance the material is not yet at the stage where you can just unwrap it and paint. There is still cleaning up to do and so much detail can't really be done in 3D and has to be added later (Handrails etc) I'm very happy with what I've achieved but it is essentially a fragile medium to work in until it's been braced.
In the case of the loco's the bracing is lead as there is no weight in them.

[Nova]

I've built/finished 4, 3D locomotives, 3 in FUD and 1 in WSF (a trial) and I'd say that even though they are an advance the material is not yet at the stage where you can just unwrap it and paint

I meant compared to having to solder a delicate brass etch

I'm very happy with what I've achieved but it is essentially a fragile medium to work in until it's been braced.

another modeler has been able to print scale thickness side rods in brass with little to no problems with structural strength and they were essentially a single bar of brass. I imagine brake rigging for the lowmac, which essentially amounts to a frame, will be fine so long as you don't manhandle it.

all the product prototypes will be personally tested by me on a day to day basis, and final amendments made, even if it means making the rigging a little overscale for the sake of strength. I can be as picky as anyone in this forum, and if I don't feel happy with the product I won't let it sell, simple as.

[Dave S]

another modeler has been able to print scale thickness side rods in brass with little to no problems with structural strength and they were essentially a single bar of brass. I imagine brake rigging for the lowmac, which essentially amounts to a frame, will be fine so long as you don't manhandle it.

all the product prototypes will be personally tested by me on a day to day basis, and final amendments made, even if it means making the rigging a little overscale for the sake of strength. I can be as picky as anyone in this forum, and if I don't feel happy with the product I won't let it sell, simple as.

I've not seen any of the printed brass yet but I wonder what the comparison in cost is for a specific item. 3D printing certainly has its applications but it is not very cheap at present.

[Nova]

I've not seen any of the printed brass yet but I wonder what the comparison in cost is for a specific item. 3D printing certainly has its applications but it is not very cheap at present.

here's what the unpolished brass option is like straight from the machine.


and it works out at about 3 times the price of the FUD, but that is worked out on the volume of the material itself, rather than the space the finished product takes up. for a brake rigging piece i imagine it being in the realm of £5-£10 a piece, this may seem expensive but it's essentially a single continuous piece of brass that should look more 3D than a brass etch which at the end of the day is just a load of 2d pieces soldered together to give the impression of a 3D piece.

[Dave S]

Thanks. Very interesting, I guess it depends on where you would be printing (in house or 3rd party) as at 3x the price of FUD a loco body in brass through Shapeways would be approx 150-200.
Just using Shapeways as an example it's not the cost of the itme as such that puts people off 3D but the tax and shipping.

[Nova]

Thanks. Very interesting, I guess it depends on where you would be printing (in house or 3rd party) as at 3x the price of FUD a loco body in brass through Shapeways would be approx 150-200.
Just using Shapeways as an example it's not the cost of the item as such that puts people off 3D but the tax and shipping.

tbf shapeways does bump up the price so they can make a profit, so the creator is forced to charge stupid money so they can earn some money as well. that's why I'm only using Shapeways mostly to create masters in FXD with which to make resin copies, much cheaper for everyone in the long run.

as for metal components, alas I don't have the space nore £10 grand to afford a metal 3d printer.

I would look into sand casting, but I fear the finished piece would be too complex

I will be looking at the different options and seeing which metal is cheapest while still giving a reasonable strength.

as I said before, if I'm not satisfied the product won't sell

[Nova]

moving on slightly, the subject of locating a lowmac to study the brake gear has got me thinking. why not make an all new lowmac?


why not three?

i'm confident that I could collect enough research on different Lomacs to create 3 different variations, MAC-OV, MAC-NV And MAC-PV, all LNER types that lasted into BR days. They will all be of a high detail but still reasonably priced, hopefully under £25-£30, which is the price range of most high-detailed wagons these days. and as with the above mentioned brake rigging there be provision for different couplings, it will also feature a wealth of both moulded and separately applied details, with some of said details being available for separate purchase so modellers can improve their pre-existing RTR wagons

in addition to these more wagons will follow which should complement the J26/J27 nicely completed

[Dave S]

that's why I'm only using Shapeways mostly to create masters in FXD with which to make resin copies, much cheaper for everyone in the long run.

I wouldn't use a 3D print as a master for resin casting, if you do then I wouldn't use shapeways to make the master. Obviously it does depend on what you're intending to resin cast but you'd be surprised at how inaccurate 3D can be. fine for a single item but not as a master.

I make patterns for casting by cut n shut as well as traditional modelling.

[BlythStationLad]

Can I add my tuppence worth re the proposed J27? I'm unaware of any impending plans in 4mm for a model by any manufacturer. I model in N: even if Hornby did eventually produce one that would stop Bachmann doing it in N. I'm currently reliant on Bachmann and really can't see it happening in the next 5 years.

The bottom line: I'd like at least four J27s in N if you could scale them down from the proposed 4mm version. I'm sure there are many other N Gaugers out there who would want some. The current N Gauge offering from IOM is really not up to current standards.

[Nova]

Can I add my tuppence worth re the proposed J27? I'm unaware of any impending plans in 4mm for a model by any manufacturer. I model in N: even if Hornby did eventually produce one that would stop Bachmann doing it in N. I'm currently reliant on Bachmann and really can't see it happening in the next 5 years.

The bottom line: I'd like at least four J27s in N if you could scale them down from the proposed 4mm version. I'm sure there are many other N Gaugers out there who would want some. The current N Gauge offering from IOM is really not up to current standards.

a production N gauge version is planned at some point, as with wagons, though the body would be purely 3D printed due to the limits of resin casting, similar story with the chassis, though if an accurate enough chassis exists it could be worked to fit on that chassis. the alternative is to print the chassis in brass so it has some adhesion to it.

[billbedford]

another modeler has been able to print scale thickness side rods in brass with little to no problems with structural strength and they were essentially a single bar of brass.

There are no commercial machines that print in brass. What is being offered is printing in a castable resin which is then burnt out and cast in brass. The castings are also finished on regular buffing wheels so there is always a degree of rounding off of sharp edges.