Atlantic's works: Portable layout - Scenic details next

[Daddyman]

The shadow along the flare in that last photo show you've got it about 99.9% right, which is a hell of a lot better than most one sees.

Re soldering, Paul Willis gave a soldering demo at Missenden this spring and said with brass or N/S start at 375 degrees and work up or down from there as the job demands. I've never had problems since I adopted that philosophy - as long as I use a 50w iron. I've never got a less powerful iron to do anything.

Mine's an Antex TCS, which I mention only because it's stunningly cheap for the brand at £60 from Maplins. It fails every year or so, but each time Maplins replace it and re-start the guarantee, and that's gone on for a few years now. I have an Antex soldering station at my father's that does exactly the same job and cost £120. I have a LRM RSU on order and hopefully that will help win the war on etched brass sheet....

[Atlantic 3279]

Incidentally Dave, I'm pleased you are contributing actively. at one stage I thought you'd vanished from the forum.

I've always been a penny-pincher regarding tools, so I'll hold off from buying any fancier soldering irons at present, but I'll refer back to your comments if necessary. With ultra-clean bit, thoroughly cleaned metal, usual flux, decent sized pre-heated blobs of solder on the bit and the admittedly less thermally conductive nickel silver of the inner chassis etch, soldering proceeded nicely last night. The shortened (as per instructions) inner fames are now together, with the spacers in the right places to match the holes in the soleplate. The brake shoes are on too, and I'm doing some more thinking at present. I'll want to fit extra pick-ups, so I must decide whether the water scoop will get in the way if I fit it. I'm not sure if it is essential to have a water scoop on this kind of tender to go behind a J3 in 1930s condition anyway. Also I'm not terribly keen on fitting the brake pull-rods as instructed, since that will make the wheels non-removable. Rather than fit them prototypically to the outer ends of the yokes, I might attach them to the inside lower edges of the external frames, in the correct relative positions of course, leaving the inner frames free to be removed and the wheels pulled off the axles if necessary. I also notice that the kit neither includes, nor as far as I've noticed even mentions (if building without waggly hornblocks) the possibility of fitting proper bearings for the axles, rather than just letting them run in slack holes in the thin frames. One or two sections of the instructions really only tell you specifically what to do if you are using compensation. If not, you need to work out for yourself what applies and what does not, although it's not difficult so that isn't a complaint. I might want to add some weight to the tender so I may well fit bearings. Now that I can see what fits where, I also need to plan ahead for the loco-tender drawbar attachment and the rear coupling.

Another mild anomaly in the instructions concerns reference to some included BA nuts and bolts (they aren't) and there's an instruction to fit the buffer bodies, which are not supplied either. No problem to me and no complaint, but do the instructions need a tweak in those respects?

[john coffin]

Hi Graeme,
there should certainly have been buffers in your kit, and also nuts and bolts. I agree about the bearings, but me culpa re the words again.

George was one of the early producers of "Flat" etched kits, ie not Craftsman, but also like many of his generation had a pretty good first hand knowledge of locos and steam because they lived with it. They were also taught the various skills you need either at school or in their jobs.
Sadly, few these days have either, they have to learn them, and that is much more complex in later life, not least with the confidence
factor.

Now I have a little more time from other things, I will look again at the instructions, and taking account of your comments modify them to make
life slightly easier. The two Ivatt tenders definitely need re writing

Paul

[Daddyman]

Thanks, Graeme. Maybe I'll get a thread up soon. There's plenty going on on my workbench.

Photo of how I solve the tender brake problem - inspired by RTR, with the brake gear bolted to the underside of the footplate and/or chassis a la Hornby A4.

Can't help with the bearing issue I'm afraid as I ditched the chassis for my Norton/LRM NER tender. Something I've done once with slotted frames though is use Comet hornblocks - intended for sprung chassis - but soldered solid. If they do ones for 2mm holes, that could be a way of converting your compensation-only chassis back to rigid. But that nice Mr Bradwell bullied me into springing my NER tenders and he's right - they roll better. I've tried springing locos too, but the Gibson system isn't the best to learn on. I can't actually find anyone who uses it.

[john coffin]

one of the biggest problem for the kit designer is indeed sorting out a sensible way of mounting the brake rigging and cross parts on any loco or
tender, or indeed some carriages. I have looked at ideas of having something pivoting at the rear end since certainly on GNR locos, you have
quite a substantial cross rod, but there is then the problem of how to keep the brake hangers stay in place properly. If one accepts that the upper mounting is not to scale, maybe because it is hidden under the valance, then you could try clipping it in, but since most people build a kit, and then
do not run it often enough to need servicing like RTR locos might, I prefer to offer the "simplest" answer for me, rather than try to be too clever.

If however, someone comes up with a better idea that is easy to produce in etched metal, then I am happy to consider any ideas.

Paul

[Atlantic 3279]

I have no further pictures yet as I spent the whole of the miserably rainy afternoon of my "day off" getting on with the construction of the kit rather than worrying about how to report it. Pictures will follow eventually, but the chassis is now rolling and painted black, with 2mm bore brass tubing acting as axle bearings for the outer axles, brake yokes in place and wiping pick-ups installed. I couldn't see a convenient and satisfactory way to keep the brake pull roads separate from the yokes, so I'll add the pull rods later when I know the wheels are staying on - after the tender has passed running trials on all relevant lines! I even fitted the scoop, possibly in the right place.....
Returning to the superstructure I soon gave up with the 25 Watt iron but made sterling (or should that be Stirling?) progress with the 60 Watt bruiser, after fettling the bit on that to suit my needs. I don't much like using such a powerful iron as the scope for causing nasty burns to self and everything else is so much greater, but at least it allows good joints to be made without any need to dwell with the iron. In fact, I suspect that makes it easier in some situations to use fingers to hold the work, as the job is done before the heat has chance to spread! Sides and rear of the tank are now soldered to the soleplate, and I reckon the rear corners have come together neatly. I believe I've also kept the soleplate edges straight. Others can make judgement when I get some pictures up.

[Atlantic 3279]

No further progress on the Stirling tender so far, what with having to do at least some work for a living, as well as being the interloper at our local S4 meeting last night. This coming weekend looks rather busy too, but at least I have time to post pictures of Wednesday's results:

A couple of comparisons with Ivatt "unequal" class B destined for replacement, behind my K's J3 with slightly under-nourished boiler diameter. Not quite slim enough to be a J4 though...

Either my dodgy building, or a slight discrepancy in the two side frame heights in the not-mirror-imaged etched for sub-frame, causes the superstructure to lean slightly to one side when sitting on the sub-frame. A couple of 0.010" shims are more than enough to correct the tilt, and the sub-frame runs nice and true so I'm not worried.

[manna]

G'day Gents

That's coming along nicely, pity earning a crust gets in the way of the more important things in life .

manna

[Atlantic 3279]

Tank top, front plate (very time consuming to build neatly) and shovelling plate (built-up front platform) now added to tender. Pictures to follow. Interesting points: Etch parts No's in instructions text/list apparently not always same as those shown in low-res diagram of parts on etched sheet! Nasty surprise when fitting mid-tank bulkhead. Filed down to easy sliding fit between side sheets before soldering. No bother at all on one side of body after soldering bulkhead in place. Other side sheet after soldering "sucked in" either side of vertical line of extra bulkhead, giving unacceptably distorted appearance. Ages spent un-doing soldered joint that side, massaging side sheet flat again, and soldering back up with side sheet pressed against a hard, truly flat support, in order to try to eliminate or at least minimise distortions...

[john coffin]

Interesting problem Graeme, not something I have come across before, nor myself on my last one.

Be interesting to see the photos of the problem if possible, might get an explanation that makes sense.

Paul

[Atlantic 3279]

Latest images. Nothing further achieved this evening as I had to draft a long letter, with some care, in connection with the "real" job...

The camera has totally failed to capture the slight distortion of one side sheet which remained after my efforts to eliminate the worst of it, but the broken red line superimposed on the first image shows the position of the ridge overlying the internal bulkhead, with subtle dip either side of it.

[john coffin]

Thanks Graeme, looking really good, I guess we will have to wait and see what it looks like with paint.

I wonder whether when cleaning up the tank top and the bulkhead, you checked whether they were both square and the correct width.

I need to check my stuff and see how to resolve the possible issue.

Paul

[Daddyman]

Superlative work there, Graeme. Very neat. I feel your pain over the warped side. It's why I prefer the Bradwell method of a strong inner box with continuous sides to support the outer sides. Your experience has alerted me to the need for care when I come to my LRM K2. Not sure how to avoid it though.

Have you tried blacking the side with a Sharpie to see how it will look with paint on? Would you actually have to disturb that much if you were to remove and replace the side?

[Atlantic 3279]

I must confess that with the strong sense that time is not currently on my side, and an equally strong desire to have the tender in service before the end of next week, I've made some bold assumptions that parts were etched squarely - providing that they looked square. Similar considerations rule out any partial strip down options at this stage. I have to hope that despite my rushed approach, all will be well enough in the end.....

[drmditch]

In relation to vertical ridges on tender tank sides where the internal structure and/or bulkheads are located:-

Sorry it's the wrong works/railway, but would Doncaster have been much superior to Darlington?
(Yes I do know that this tender has been re-built in preservation.)

I do have another picture (which I can't find at the moment) of SNG's tender on a chilly morning. The level of water showed clearly by the condensation on the side sheets, and the internal structure also showed clearly as well.

Has water temperature/dewpoint/etc changed that much since nationalisation?