Computer Coloured Monochrome

mick b · Post by **mick b** » Sun May 22, 2016 12:54 pm

Yes Darlington did their own thing with liveries . Teak paint is a mid orange/brown colour. All would end up a mucky Grey/ Brown but with variation of colour/shade depending on how long in traffic.

Teak colour a bit dirty.

Woodcock29 · Post by **Woodcock29** » Mon May 23, 2016 3:26 pm

With regard to buffer stocks my understanding is that the standard livery was black stocks, except that Darlington generally painted them red on black locos. Most green ex NE engines seem to have black stocks. There is a photo in LNER Locomotives in colour 1936-1948 of a B1 in green which clearly had red stocks (one now appears black!) and the caption says it was completed at Darlington in Feb 1947 (p77). This book has a lot of photos of black NE engines and most if not all have red stocks.

In the same photo of the B1 mentioned above there is a horsebox coupled behind the engine and its colour is marginally lighter than in your picture - as you say there was a lot of variation in weathering of colours and I doubt there were many bright teak painted horseboxes like that of the Hornby CCT above, for long.

Postman Prat · Post by **Postman Prat** » Mon May 23, 2016 7:17 pm

Re: Computer Coloured Monochrome

Quote Darwin4975

Post by Darwin4975 » Sun May 01, 2016 6:55 pm

Well, I like them. It's good to see this feature return.

Darwin4975 · Post by **Darwin4975** » Mon May 23, 2016 9:12 pm

I have looked at all the pictures in the LNER section of The Big Four in Colour (TBFIC) and also everything in LNER Locomotives on Colour 1936-1948. It seems from these books that black really was universal for buffer stocks on green engines in pre-war days, irrespective of which Works did the painting. Interestingly, No 2164 features on p.69 of TBFIC but the buffer stock colour is unclear though probably black. This picture was also taken in 1937 but not at the same time, as the lined out end of the sandwich bufferbeam is not the same. The loco is decidedly grubby, but the red lining below the footplate shows up clearly. Colour film in those days must have been quite sensitive to red unlike orthochromatic b/w film as the negative shows no trace of the red line.

I have tweaked the picture making the engine less clean looking. The area of the frame below the lubricator pipes is liberally coated in grime showing no green. Loss of white lining in this area confirms that it was covered in muck. Also the boiler top and dome. The buffer stocks are now black and the horsebox colour has been altered. The locomotive green is more subdued in keeping with its somewhat unclean state. Maybe this is what it looked like at the time?

mick b · Post by **mick b** » Mon May 23, 2016 10:24 pm

A 4mm C7 I have made with Black buffer stocks, been easier to have posted this than my earlier comments re lining etc. This in the Darlington version of Apple Green .

Darwin4975 · Post by **Darwin4975** » Wed May 25, 2016 12:27 am

Another Atlantic, this time Great Central. I wonder what Robinson thought when he discovered that his Atlantics were not to be given green livery after 1928, whereas the ex- GN, NE and NB Atlantics all were. A strange decision.

A Jersey Lily looked great even in lined black. This one seen at March shed in July '38. Red buffer stocks.

I am away for the next couple of weeks.

Darwin4975 · Post by **Darwin4975** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:25 pm

A garter blue A4 flashes through Craigentinny with the down Flying Scotsman in 1937. Dominion of Canada in charge. A K3 waits in the distance.

I believe the bell was disabled in early BR days because an urchin on the Kings Cross platform asked the driver of a northbound express to make it go, and it could not be stopped. It continued ringing all the way to Newcastle.

Darwin4975 · Post by **Darwin4975** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:14 pm

A lovely John Robertson photo from 1952 shows an evening Edinburgh - Thornton local bustling past Haymarket with a Shire in charge. Another landscape type negative which gives a panoramic quality to the picture. The lined black BR livery suited these engines well. No 62704 Stirlingshire was withdrawn from service in November ’58. Image courtesy of Transport Treasury.

Darwin4975 · Post by **Darwin4975** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:41 pm

Some help needed with this one please. A nice view at the north end of Selby station sometime in the early to mid 1950s. The K3 is a Hull engine (with the distinctive chalk messaging on the buffers -was this done anywhere else?). The D49 is 62731 Selkirkshire - shed ? Are they coupled together ? Looks like they are. They both seem to be carrying a local passenger lamp code. Perhaps they arrived on different trains and are about to visit the shed
When did those lovely semaphores disappear. Likewise the station nameboard ?

This picture is likely to be on a front cover of BRILL in the next few months and a caption is required. Any information would be appreciated.

strang steel · Post by **strang steel** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:03 pm

Darwin4975 wrote:I have looked at all the pictures in the LNER section of The Big Four in Colour (TBFIC) and also everything in LNER Locomotives on Colour 1936-1948. It seems from these books that black really was universal for buffer stocks on green engines in pre-war days, irrespective of which Works did the painting. Interestingly, No 2164 features on p.69 of TBFIC but the buffer stock colour is unclear though probably black. This picture was also taken in 1937 but not at the same time, as the lined out end of the sandwich bufferbeam is not the same. The loco is decidedly grubby, but the red lining below the footplate shows up clearly. Colour film in those days must have been quite sensitive to red unlike orthochromatic b/w film as the negative shows no trace of the red line.

I have tweaked the picture making the engine less clean looking. The area of the frame below the lubricator pipes is liberally coated in grime showing no green. Loss of white lining in this area confirms that it was covered in muck. Also the boiler top and dome. The buffer stocks are now black and the horsebox colour has been altered. The locomotive green is more subdued in keeping with its somewhat unclean state. Maybe this is what it looked like at the time?

2164 York '37 4b.jpg

I think this is superb.

Ok so the colour shade may not be spot on, but to me it is the best estimate that I am going to witness.

Thanks very much.

I can see this idea becoming a basis for retro-computer imaging for virtual journeys into the past using large amounts of computer power and high speed storage/transfer in future years.

Darwin4975 · Post by **Darwin4975** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:58 pm

The Selby K3/D49 picture is already on the front cover of the August edition of British Railways Illustrated due out any day now. One hopes the Editor will have been able to provide a suitable caption.

Here’s something earlier. A well polished Ivatt Atlantic at Grantham on an up express. This one was later allocated No 2833.

Negative courtesy of the Transport Treasury

Darwin4975 · Post by **Darwin4975** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:33 pm

The negative that gave rise to this picture is the size of a paperback book and was taken using a camera with a very good lens. The sharpness of the result speaks for itself.
This D11/2 entered Cowlairs in February 1949 and was released ex-works on 2nd April when the picture was taken (at Eastfield). It is clear from the original that the paint shop had been liberal with black paint, daubing all the pipework, works plates, lubricator box etc so no polished brass or copper was to be seen. This engine was one of the 5 Scottish Directors which never received the long travel valves and so retained the straight reversing rod to the end.

Negative by John Robertson courtesy of the Transport Treasury

Hatfield Shed · Post by **Hatfield Shed** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:33 pm

Darwin4975 wrote:... with a very good lens...

Be interesting to know what it was, one of the best apochromats available in its day I should think, and doubtless hideously expensive. The contrast it obtains in the low light and general dark greys of the underframe is really something.

John Palmer · Post by **John Palmer** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:02 pm

I hope I may be forgiven for a slight deviation from the thread's topic, but the picture of Flora MacIvor illustrates particularly well a fitting apparently found only on LNER locomotives, the purpose of which I have not been able to discover. The principal visible component seems to be a spiral torsion spring, and its position suggests to me the possibility that it may be connected with (?continuous) blowdown arrangements, but I really don't know. I've arrowed it on the attached extract from the picture; can anyone enlighten me please?

61962 · Post by **61962** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:24 pm

John,

This is the end of the drop grate operating shaft. The spiral spring is used to balance the weight of the drop grate. The other end of the shaft has the operating crank which is connected by a long link to a screw in the cab. A removable handle was fitted to a square on the end of the screw to enable it to be turned to drop the grate for disposal of the fire.

According to the relevant volume of the green book D11/2s were first fitted with this apparatus in 1935 ( 8 engines allocated to Eastfield) The rest of the class were equipped after the war.

Eddie