Atlantic's works: Portable layout - Scenic details next

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Pictures as promised, including a resurrection of a brake van that I forgot to mention earlier - even that took up more time than I imagined it would and caused a lot of cursing as I firstly managed to "fumble" while holding one soldering iron, burning myself in the process, then found the 25 W power of that iron inadequate for the job anyway so had to fetch the 6O watt "special" to get the job done...

First of all the projected Ivatt 2-6-2 fast goods engine, as it might have been modified by Gresley, still far from complete but having at least gained some boiler bands, firebox details and new holes for handrails since its brief test run on Little Bytham a couple of weeks ago.
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That same visit allowed me to collect a Heljan O2. This was in fact the O2/4 variant. After a bit of thought I decided to have a go at conversion to almost O2/1 status which is more suitable for my modelling theme. The running plate height will be wrong for the O2/1 class part, but I'll live with that for the time being. Maybe the loco will later change again into 3461. The boiler details behind the smokebox have all been cleaned off and re-created by the same means as for the Ivatt 2-6-2. The dome is a one-off created by filing and sanding a slightly different one I had in stock and the chimney is in resin, from a mould that needs to be re-made - when I get the time. The tender is all resin, borrowed from a J6, also from a mould that is now life-expired. The cab is explained a couple of posts further on, so as not to make nonsense of questions that were asked before I added these notes...
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This brake van also resulted from my LB visit. It lay at the bottom of one of John Houlden's stock boxes, clearly having been built and finished to a good cosmetic standard but either age and neglect, or some other factor had caused a problem or two. It was too good to throw away, but three of the axleboxes lacked bearings entirely and one contained a brass bearing pushed in at an awkward angle. The brakes were on very firmly. I tried several different types of bearing in the axleboxes but none would fit the holes properly and accommodate the axles correctly too. I therefore adopted Mr Wright's suggestion of a form of internal subframe, just some strips of brass bent up to channel shapes with a brass tubes soldered into suitable holes to house the axles. These units were then glued to the van floor with some plasticard spacers to set the ride height. Free running with square level axles is now achieved. I inadvertently used tube of 2.5mm bore but that might be a good thing in the long run as lack of lubrication will never result in tightening up of the 2mm axles. The other snag as received was the way that the step boards were attached. The upright supports were simply spot soldered, none too firmly in places, to the outside edges (top and bottom) of the solebar channels, bridging the channel in a way not seen in any photographs I could find. The stepboards were well out of gauge. I broke them free and re-attached them in truer positions with some 0.7mm brass wire behind the flimsier supports in order to give some strength.
I haven't checked in detail but the timber end stanchions and pressed steel duckets without planking above of below suggest to me that this is supposed to be a Toad B with replacement duckets. If so, I don't know if it is a legitimate pre-1939 LNER item. The plain turned brass buffers and the basic style of the kit's etchings and underframe arrangements put me in mind of Jidenco but I don't know if the kit came from that range. No doubt somebody will advise.
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Woodcock29
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by Woodcock29 »

Graeme

Looks like you're making an O2/1 from the Heljan model using a new cab you made for the Prairie?

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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by earlswood nob »

Good morning all

At first glance the cab looks like the one fitted to the Q3. This was wider than the Q1/2 and had a more rounded roof.

I had never realised the similarities before. I shall study pics/plans later to see how close they were.

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

The O2/1 cab is in fact a modified version of a resin K2 cab to original full GNR height, not the cut down LNER version. I had to reduce the length of the cab by a couple of millimetres (cut and shut just behind the spectacle plate) and fill in the lower front corners of the side sheets. Rather than weaken the cab (probably fatally) to try to let it clip over the boiler barrel, Heljan style, I cut the boiler just ahead of the backhead.

The cab has interesting differences when compared to the Heljan O2/2 cab. The roofs, correctly, are to different radii. The spectacles are different shapes, the O2/1 cab having smaller ones with the earlier style of sloping straight inboard edge (did that make it easier to cut the glass?) whereas Heljan have correctly modelled the larger apertures with curved inner edges for the O2/2. Both styles of cab should of course have the turned-in rear edges to the side-sheets. Mine has.....
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by mick b »

Nice O2 I also presume Heljan chassis too, a good working one after some criticisms seen elsewhere?


Brakevan looks like its been hard work , why the strange wheel/underframe set up ?
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by jwealleans »

Brakevan looks like its been hard work , why the strange wheel/underframe set up ?
If I might hazard a guess - Jidenco and that was an attempt to get it within sight of a sensible running height?

I did away with the ducket on mine and replaced with the nice cast ones Mr. Scott can obtain. I'm told it's overscale, but it looks OK on a layout and if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, as they say.....
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by earlswood nob »

G'day all

It was the curved-in cab sheets that attracted my attention.

The cab is virtually the same as the Q3, the differences are less that an inch in height.

I hadn't noticed the difference in spectacles until GK mentioned it. However, the Q3 had the straight bottomed spectacles.

I do have an unbuilt NuCast O2/2, I shall have to check the spectacles. It might be possible to resin cast a cab for my proposed Q3 which is in my ever increasing "roundtuit" pile, currently a chassis, footplate, boiler, and tender.

Thanks to GK, I have increased my knowledge today.

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

mick b wrote:Nice O2 I also presume Heljan chassis too, a good working one after some criticisms seen elsewhere?


Brakevan looks like its been hard work , why the strange wheel/underframe set up ?
Now explained in the notes accompanying the pictures. You were perhaps just a shade ahead of the appearance of my notes when you asked the question.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

jwealleans wrote:
Brakevan looks like its been hard work , why the strange wheel/underframe set up ?
If I might hazard a guess - Jidenco and that was an attempt to get it within sight of a sensible running height?

I did away with the ducket on mine and replaced with the nice cast ones Mr. Scott can obtain. I'm told it's overscale, but it looks OK on a layout and if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, as they say.....
Ditto.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

jwealleans wrote:
Brakevan .....

If I might hazard a gues - Jidenco ..... I'm told it's overscale,
Not discernibly so compared to drawing in Tatlow, my resin Toad Ds and a Parkside Toad B, so your information may be from an unreliable source.

Size of a duck too, albeit a toad, or as Goldilocks found, "just right".
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by jwealleans »

Well, he's usually pretty sensible - it's in my 'Kit Identification' thread in the Other Place. He reckons 4.15mm/ft.

Be a shame if it were wildly out of scale as I believe it's the only LNER brakevan kit currently available, unless Bill has released any recently?
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I see that it's the height that is supposed to be the problem. All I could find was that the arc of the roof is barely a gnat's whatsit higher than on my resin version. Perhaps, like the GC 6 wheeled brake, the apparent dimension error was exaggerated by extravagant ride height if built as intended? I've no means of knowing as the axleboxes and W-irons on my ready-built example were in such poor condition. As related above, I mounted the wheels in internal subframes giving suitable ride height.
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Having found that handling of the O2 during conversion work repeatedly caused each of the flimsily attached expansion links to pop off the rivet that is supposed to hold it on the motion bracket, I've stopped the trouble by dispensing with the rivet, soldering a washer to the inner face of the expansion link, then introducing a pin in lieu of the rivet and soldering the pin to the washer. After limiting the sideplay on the leading coupled wheels by adding washers to the axle I've also straightened up the splayed slidebars, pulled in the top edges of the motion bracket, squared-up its outer faces, and moved the radius rods / lifting levers outwards somewhat so that they now appear to have something to do with the rest of the valve gear! I've also very carefully reduced the extreme outward kinks in the return cranks so that the loco no longer appears to be running with elbows sticking out. I was VERY careful not to break the bond between the return cranks and the hexagonal heads of the driving crankpins.
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Other progress:
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As a box-full of J6 castings will not appear out of thin air to complement the many K2 parts that I've cast, no matter how much I might wish that it would do so, I shall have to get back to pouring resin in earnest now.
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by mick b »

Nice work, amazed how poor the O2 valve gear has been made and designed. Makes Hornby semi flimsy versions look wonderful in comparison. I have also read the comments re con rod screws screwing direct into non bushed plastic drivers , a very poor design.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: Ivatt large boilered Prarie?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

It's a pity as many parts of the model are excellent, incorporating details or refinements that many buyers will never be aware of. Those who assisted with the research and the checking of pre-production prototypes obviously did a valiant job, and I know from personal communication that they did not have an easy time of it. My feeling is that outsourcing of manufacture (plus overseas design), for all of its advantages, has a huge Achilles heel. It's bad enough trying to get some people to follow instructions consistently when you are in the same building. Trying to get somebody on the other side of the world, from a totally different culture, to follow an instruction, and keep following it rather than doing as they mistakenly think best, must be a nightmare.
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