James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
Another 'I'll get around to it one day' project left over from last year....
I've wanted a couple of these imposing examples of rolling stock for a few years; more than anything else to go with the Fish Engine I built.
Idly browsing Ebay about this time last year I bought a pair of GWR Siphon H vans quite cheaply, thinking at the time that they were close enough to build easily into convincing models of the fish vans.
Errr.... nope.
They're too long, too high, the roof profile is wrong, the bogies are too big, the layout of the external strapping is wrong, the number of doors are wrong...
.... so since then they've sat on a shelf whilst I've gotten on with other things and considered how to go about a conversion.
The first step is to lose the extra length. You need to remove 20mm, and this I took out of the middle of the underframe. I should point out I removed the underframe trussing first and kept it safe, intending to re-use it when the time comes. The two halves of the underframe were then reunited with a good piece of plastic sheet over the joint to reinforce it.
Shortening the overall length brought the over-sized bogies into focus. Having removed them from the underframes, I cut either side of the mounting pins and set those bits aside. I had to lose 14mm from the bogie and by luck the bolster the mounting pins push through is 14mm in length! So that 14mm was cut away, then the bolster filed down (it wouldn't then fit between the wheelsets...) and the whole lot glued back together.
White areas are where I've reinforced what's left of the bogie.
On to the bodywork.
Having cut 20mm out the middle of the underframe, it must therefore follow that I had to cut the same out of the body. Rather the simply cut it out of the middle, and end up with a weak joint top to bottom in the middle of the van, I took stock of what I had. Not only is the body too long, it is too high and the roof is wrong. There is nothing therefore to be gained by keeping as much as possible in one piece. Therefore I separated the sides of the Siphon van from the roof and the ends, and then removed 18mm (20mm less the 1mm thickness of the moulding at both ends) from one end of the van side.
My intention at this point was 'simply' sand down the Siphon strapping, replace it with something more appropriate, and leave it there. But the more I thought about it, the more I came to the conclusion that this really wouldn't answer, and so I eventually decided that the upper halves of the sides would have to be scratchbuilt. Therefore I cut the sides down to 12mm in height, and as by this time they looked a little woebegone I mirrored them (so the right side becomes the left, and vice-versa), and scored planking on what used to be the inside face. I then glued these to the underframe to properly brace the joint.
At this point I felt that the structure was solid enough to take a craftknife to the solebars and remove the footboards under the removed doors and suchlike. This done I then fitted 3mm strips of plastic to form a new solebar face.
Casting around for a new roof, I found a Triang Mk.1 roof in my spares box. I offered this up to the drawing I'm working to (to be found in the back of Volume 3 of George Dow's Great Central) and found it to be a reasonably close match. I cut it down to 180mm in length, removing the excess out of the middle so as to retain the large mating surfaces at each end. All of the ventilators, panel seams, rainstrips etc. were then sanded off of it.
The part removed from the middle of the roof was then used as a handy template to use for plotting out the roof profile when drawing up the ends. These ends were cut from 0.5mm plastic sheet, and glued into place. The roof was then glued in.
Next stage will be to build the slatted upper sides and the external framing.
I've wanted a couple of these imposing examples of rolling stock for a few years; more than anything else to go with the Fish Engine I built.
Idly browsing Ebay about this time last year I bought a pair of GWR Siphon H vans quite cheaply, thinking at the time that they were close enough to build easily into convincing models of the fish vans.
Errr.... nope.
They're too long, too high, the roof profile is wrong, the bogies are too big, the layout of the external strapping is wrong, the number of doors are wrong...
.... so since then they've sat on a shelf whilst I've gotten on with other things and considered how to go about a conversion.
The first step is to lose the extra length. You need to remove 20mm, and this I took out of the middle of the underframe. I should point out I removed the underframe trussing first and kept it safe, intending to re-use it when the time comes. The two halves of the underframe were then reunited with a good piece of plastic sheet over the joint to reinforce it.
Shortening the overall length brought the over-sized bogies into focus. Having removed them from the underframes, I cut either side of the mounting pins and set those bits aside. I had to lose 14mm from the bogie and by luck the bolster the mounting pins push through is 14mm in length! So that 14mm was cut away, then the bolster filed down (it wouldn't then fit between the wheelsets...) and the whole lot glued back together.
White areas are where I've reinforced what's left of the bogie.
On to the bodywork.
Having cut 20mm out the middle of the underframe, it must therefore follow that I had to cut the same out of the body. Rather the simply cut it out of the middle, and end up with a weak joint top to bottom in the middle of the van, I took stock of what I had. Not only is the body too long, it is too high and the roof is wrong. There is nothing therefore to be gained by keeping as much as possible in one piece. Therefore I separated the sides of the Siphon van from the roof and the ends, and then removed 18mm (20mm less the 1mm thickness of the moulding at both ends) from one end of the van side.
My intention at this point was 'simply' sand down the Siphon strapping, replace it with something more appropriate, and leave it there. But the more I thought about it, the more I came to the conclusion that this really wouldn't answer, and so I eventually decided that the upper halves of the sides would have to be scratchbuilt. Therefore I cut the sides down to 12mm in height, and as by this time they looked a little woebegone I mirrored them (so the right side becomes the left, and vice-versa), and scored planking on what used to be the inside face. I then glued these to the underframe to properly brace the joint.
At this point I felt that the structure was solid enough to take a craftknife to the solebars and remove the footboards under the removed doors and suchlike. This done I then fitted 3mm strips of plastic to form a new solebar face.
Casting around for a new roof, I found a Triang Mk.1 roof in my spares box. I offered this up to the drawing I'm working to (to be found in the back of Volume 3 of George Dow's Great Central) and found it to be a reasonably close match. I cut it down to 180mm in length, removing the excess out of the middle so as to retain the large mating surfaces at each end. All of the ventilators, panel seams, rainstrips etc. were then sanded off of it.
The part removed from the middle of the roof was then used as a handy template to use for plotting out the roof profile when drawing up the ends. These ends were cut from 0.5mm plastic sheet, and glued into place. The roof was then glued in.
Next stage will be to build the slatted upper sides and the external framing.
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
After a week of fairly ticklish work with plastic sheet the slatted sides are finished.
- manna
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
G'day Gents
That's an impressive bit of modelling,
manna
That's an impressive bit of modelling,
manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
Thanks; it's getting there. I've done the ends this evening and re-fitted the roof. Now I'm pondering the livery. Dow writes that they were finished in brown with GC in yellow, yet I've also seen reference that post-WWI they were repainted in grey.
Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
James,
the livery did indeed change in 1907 from brown with yellow lettering to grey with white lettering. The slatted version of the fish vans that you have chosen were built in 1915, so would have been grey from new until LNE repaints. The earlier louvred version was of course initially finished in brown as you say.
Cheers Tony.
the livery did indeed change in 1907 from brown with yellow lettering to grey with white lettering. The slatted version of the fish vans that you have chosen were built in 1915, so would have been grey from new until LNE repaints. The earlier louvred version was of course initially finished in brown as you say.
Cheers Tony.
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
That solves the riddle! Thanks Tony. (Another little bit of info I didn't know about before).
- Atlantic 3279
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
That's a brave piece of all-but scratch building!
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1
Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
Thank you very much; it's been one of my typical 'how hard can it be?' jobs.
Friday night saw the ends fitted up with their bracing and vents, the roof re-instated (still needs finishing), runners for the doors fitted and the whole body put back on its wheels.
Work to do now basically runs to finishing the roof, fitting door handles and steps up to the doors, and painting.
If I knew then what I now, I would not have bought two complete Siphons, but rather bought two chassis and built the body completely from scratch. Maybe I'll try that approach when I try my hand at a Diagram 50 later this year. I have to figure out how, exactly, I'll do the louvres on that....
Friday night saw the ends fitted up with their bracing and vents, the roof re-instated (still needs finishing), runners for the doors fitted and the whole body put back on its wheels.
Work to do now basically runs to finishing the roof, fitting door handles and steps up to the doors, and painting.
If I knew then what I now, I would not have bought two complete Siphons, but rather bought two chassis and built the body completely from scratch. Maybe I'll try that approach when I try my hand at a Diagram 50 later this year. I have to figure out how, exactly, I'll do the louvres on that....
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
Now that the paint is going on of course all of the little rough edges start to come out. So the next step will be to sort those out.
- nzpaul
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
You shouldn't own up to rough edges James, can't see them in the photos. Great effort regardless, I think you can claim a scratch build for that one, it's gone well beyond adaption.
Cheers
Paul
Cheers
Paul
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
Thanks! I'm rather looking forward to seeing it finished now, as it looks to be one of my better efforts (also I have a nice long list of stuff waiting it's turn on the bench).
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
The fish van is finished.
There are a few small jobs still to do; the number for example (planning to use HMRS goods stock transfers for that).
There are a few small jobs still to do; the number for example (planning to use HMRS goods stock transfers for that).
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
Next project; rebuilding my B3.
I had a crack at it a few years ago and at that time fitted scale wheels and rebuilt the front end. The intention this time is to deal with the fact that it sits about 5mm too high on the chassis.
After some fairly extensive surgery, and the removal of a lot of material, I have finally got it to sit at scale height.
Half of the battle won! Now I just have to rebuild the rest of it.
I had a crack at it a few years ago and at that time fitted scale wheels and rebuilt the front end. The intention this time is to deal with the fact that it sits about 5mm too high on the chassis.
After some fairly extensive surgery, and the removal of a lot of material, I have finally got it to sit at scale height.
Half of the battle won! Now I just have to rebuild the rest of it.
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
Lord Faringdon, Part II...
With the loco suitably lowered on the chassis, I was able to start thinking about rebuilding had been wrecked. The firebox was easy enough- an overlay of paper covered the hole.
With the valances, I started by tracing the scale drawing I'm following, and then comparing this tracing with what I actually have on the model. What with how it had originally been put together, and the donor parts used, means that the cylinders are set too far back, which in turn means that the valances have to take account of this. Once happy with the tracing, I glued it to a sheet of 0.5mm plastic sheet. Then I glued another piece of 0.5mm sheet to this, using PVA glue. Then it was left under a heavy weight to set for a few days. Once it had all dried out, I was able to cut and file until I had a nice neat valance. It was then left in a bucket of water... the PVA dissolved and I then had two identical valances. Neat little trick, that.
Anyway, once these had been fitted to the locomotive with impact adhesive, and the whole left to set overnight, I was able to rebuilt the running plate, using paper and filler. It sounds very fragile and to be fair it is- to start with. Once the glue has dried and the filler hardened, however, it does become remarkably strong for what it is. A few coats of paint also lend it more strength.
It was at this point I decided to see what could be done about the cylinders being too far back. I drilled a new mounting hole in the cylinder block, then was able to shunt the whole assembly forward by about 2.5mm. Unfortunately this then meant that the existing piston and connecting rods no longer fitted; with the piston rod at maximum travel it fell out of the cylinder. To get around this I ordered some piston and connecting rods off of another locomotive, however these had the same issue. I could keep spending money ordering random sets of connecting rods in hopes of finding a set that fit, but they cost £7/ pair and what with how many combinations I'd have to try.... there are other things I'd sooner spend my money on.
Anyway, as of yesterday afternoon I had a model that now looks like this.
And I am starting to paint her up in Great Central livery.
With the loco suitably lowered on the chassis, I was able to start thinking about rebuilding had been wrecked. The firebox was easy enough- an overlay of paper covered the hole.
With the valances, I started by tracing the scale drawing I'm following, and then comparing this tracing with what I actually have on the model. What with how it had originally been put together, and the donor parts used, means that the cylinders are set too far back, which in turn means that the valances have to take account of this. Once happy with the tracing, I glued it to a sheet of 0.5mm plastic sheet. Then I glued another piece of 0.5mm sheet to this, using PVA glue. Then it was left under a heavy weight to set for a few days. Once it had all dried out, I was able to cut and file until I had a nice neat valance. It was then left in a bucket of water... the PVA dissolved and I then had two identical valances. Neat little trick, that.
Anyway, once these had been fitted to the locomotive with impact adhesive, and the whole left to set overnight, I was able to rebuilt the running plate, using paper and filler. It sounds very fragile and to be fair it is- to start with. Once the glue has dried and the filler hardened, however, it does become remarkably strong for what it is. A few coats of paint also lend it more strength.
It was at this point I decided to see what could be done about the cylinders being too far back. I drilled a new mounting hole in the cylinder block, then was able to shunt the whole assembly forward by about 2.5mm. Unfortunately this then meant that the existing piston and connecting rods no longer fitted; with the piston rod at maximum travel it fell out of the cylinder. To get around this I ordered some piston and connecting rods off of another locomotive, however these had the same issue. I could keep spending money ordering random sets of connecting rods in hopes of finding a set that fit, but they cost £7/ pair and what with how many combinations I'd have to try.... there are other things I'd sooner spend my money on.
Anyway, as of yesterday afternoon I had a model that now looks like this.
And I am starting to paint her up in Great Central livery.
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Re: James' workbench- ex-GC locos and stock in OO
Afternoon all
I solved the problem of the long piston rods for B3/B7 by cutting off the piston rod from a Comet crosshead, and soldering a longer piece of brass rod.
It's a pity that I never solved the problems that I had constructing the body. However, I now have a spare Kay's B2 kit which could be used as a starting point.
Earlswood nob
I solved the problem of the long piston rods for B3/B7 by cutting off the piston rod from a Comet crosshead, and soldering a longer piece of brass rod.
It's a pity that I never solved the problems that I had constructing the body. However, I now have a spare Kay's B2 kit which could be used as a starting point.
Earlswood nob