Cheshire Line/LNER Dia.39 and Dia.40 Cattle Wagons

[Garethp8873]

Dear Sirs,

Recently I've been reading the LNER Wagons Vol.4B and it's chapter on the LNER Cattle wagons. Whilst reading this chapter, I came across the rather interesting information about the five Dia.39 and fifteen Dia.40 LNER Cattle wagons that were built for the Cheshire Line Commitee in 1928. I was then surprised to read that in 1930, the cattle wagons went into LNER and LMS ownership.

Of the Dia.39, LNER had CLC 4471/75 (LNER 545684/86) and LMS had 4474/75; all gone by 15th June 1963. As to Dia.40, LNER had 4476/85 (LNER 545687/96) and LMS 4486/90; one still being in stock by June 1963 as well.

With Oxford Rail recently announcing a LNER Dia.39 Cattle wagon, I thought it'd rather interesting to model two ex-CLC Cattle wagons in LNER and LMS livery. However the information on the LMS numbers isn't in Volume 4B and I've not been able to find the information elsewhere.

Can anyone tell me what were the numbers the LMS gave to their ex-CLC Dia.39/40 Cattle wagons and if possible when were they withdrawn? The same information is needed for the LNER examples as well please.

Any information would be most appreciated.
Garethp8873.

[JASd17]

The late Bob Miller's work on CLC wagons is being published in the LNER Society Journal.

Not sure if the cattle wagon information you require has been done yet, I think not.

John

[65447]

CLC Diagram 52A (LNER Diagram 39) - 5 built by Charles Roberts in 1928 nos. 4471-5. Nos. 4471-3 given LNER nos. 545684-6 in 1930 and all gone by June 1963. Nos 4474-5 sold to LMS in 1930.

CLC Diagram 52B (LNER Diagram 40) 15 built by Charles Roberts in 1928 nos. 4476-90. Nos. 4476-85 given LNER nos. 545687-96 in 1930 with one (unknown) lasting until 1963. Nos. 4486-90 sold to LMS in 1930.

There were certain detail differences between the CLC versions and the standard LNER versions which may be relevant when modelling them.

Have you tried Bob Essery's LMS Goods Wagons books in case one of them gives the LMS numbering?

[Darryl Tooley]

The section of the R W Miller work dealing with cattle wagons is currently slated for Journal 68 (December 2016). However there is little or no information in it beyond that given in LNER Wagons Vol 4b. Mr Miller was evidently unable to find any documentation relating to the LMS renumbering, and beyond observing that the 1,370 wagons purchased by the LMS were believed to have been given numbers in the series 357951 to 359999, has little to say on the matter of LMS numbers.

Although CLC wagons are mentioned in passing in Mr Essery's work on Midland wagons, both his two volume work on LMS wagons (OPC, 1981) and the earlier volume on the subject (The LMS wagon, Essery & Morgan, David & Charles, 1977), deal solely with LMS newbuild.

The most obvious difference between the CLC and LNER cattle wagons, was that the hand-brake only variety built for the CLC had a through vacuum pipe. This is the type shown in the photo in LNER wagons Vol 4b, and is as far as I'm aware, a type not represented on the parent system.

D

[65447]

There are of course several books about the CLC, several of which I borrowed when I had the need to gain a greater understanding of certain facets of it - in particular the coaching stock. However I do not recall any that went into the detail on the rolling stock required here, but I did hope that possibly Bob Essery might have done so.

The only other possible source is as an enquiry to the HMRS, or possibly to Paul Bartlett - which is almost the same thing.