GNR Wood Green

[52D]

Just had this sent through its a bit to far south for me to comment on but its worthy of a repost on here. View at 200% enlargement.

[StevieG]

Well worth it indeed 52D.

This is a view south from Bridge Road bridge at the north end of Wood Green station.

The signal box in the foreground is Wood Green No.3 (signalled Down lines only), and the three-doll bracket signal, of which only the 'landing' can be seen, carried the Down Fast, Down Slow No.1 Line - Down Slow, and Down Slow No.1 - Down Branch (Enfield or Cuffley line, depending on date) Homes signals for No.3, which also had Distant arms below them for the next Box (Wood Green Tunnel Box, or Bounds Green box, as appropriate).

The visible non-platformed track, centre, is the Down Fast line; the Down platform island (right) served the Nos. 1 & 2 Slow lines; the nearest Up platform island (left) served the Up Fast and the west side of the Up Slow [its east side, and the Up Branch line (from Cuffley/Enfield) were served by the further, parallel, Up-side platform island].

Interesting to see, in the distance, just beyond the Up platforms, the various very tall signal posts with co-acting arms of the No.4 Box (Up lines only) Home signals for the Fast, Slow, Branch, and Goods line roads, demonstrating the era of when a sky background for the visibility/reading of signals at distance was considered very important : These would apparently have been intended to be visible to approaching locos' footplatemen north of the station, above the bridge from which this photo was taken. -
- And in fact, the partly-visible bracket signal of No.3 Box, close in front of the photographer, looks to have been of a similar height, thus being visible, above the station buildings and bridges, to Down train crews from way back along the straight from Hornsey, possibly even from Hornsey station itself, (provided that they weren't obscured by parts of the two intervening signal gantries).

[52D]

Cheers mate I knew you or micky would come up with the goods.

[manna]

G'day Gents

Great find 52D, first time I've seen a picture of Wood Green station from that angle, with the C12 on a local stopper, it would date the pic. to about 1900.

manna

[Mickey]

The signal box in the foreground is Wood Green No.3 (signalled Down lines only)...

I don't ever remember the box actually working as a signal box because when i first saw it around the second half of 1967 the redundant structure was by then being used by the local P.Way gang and was continued to be used by them for many years well into the 1970s. The structure was still standing there towards the end of 1975 but may have been dismantled a year or two after that date and swept away anyway even though the structure was used by the local P.Way gang strangely enough i don't ever remember seeing any P.Way men entering or leaving the box (when riding on a passing train) it always appeared to be empty other than seeing a few ralway jackets hanging up in the windows unless it was only used as a store room for there tools and other P.Way equipment.

Mickey

[EddieBN]

Just seen the great photo from 52D....brings back memories of No.3 box and also Wood Green Tunnel box. When I was at BN , W ood Green Tunnel box was still open and we used to get details ( via the telegraph ! ) of passing times of all down freights, E.C.S and light engines. When Tunnel box was closed down ( '63/'64 ? ) all this information came from Wood Green No.3 , so I'm thinking after all these years that box became a pretty busy place. I vaguely remember they also sent on out of course passenger train information as well. Does anyone know if No.3 had a Saxby & Farmer frame and how big it was ?

Eddie

[Mickey]

Does anyone know if No.3 had a Saxby & Farmer frame and how big it was?.

As a pure guess Eddie i would say it had a total of 20-25 levers i doubt if it had more than 25 also i believe Wood Green Up Box No.4 a couple of hundred yards further south at the other end of Wood Green station had a Saxby & Farmer lever frame so i am guessing that Wood Green No.3 also had a Saxby & Farmer lever frame as well?.

Stevie & John will probably know for sure also Dave Cockle mite know as well?.

Mickey

[EddieBN]

I have the the box diagram from Wood Green No.2 ( up box ) dated October 1943. It shows the crossover connecting the down slow to up slow. Interestingly it shows that all the points and ground signals were controlled by No.3 ( down box ) ie down slow to up fast/up slow, down fast to up fast/up slow, up fast to down fast/down slow and up slow to down fast/down slow. Releasing Levers No.1 and No.2 in No.2 box were used to allow movements to/from the up fast and up slow. Does anyone know when this crossover was taken out ? Mickey, this might be a good question for you having been on the footplate ! On the up slow the diagram shows up slow home No.9,inner distant ? No.10 ( in WG tunnel right side) and outer distant No.11. Up slow home to up Enfield No.25, Up slow home to up goods No.21, inner distant ? No.22 ( in WG tunnel left side ) and outer distant No.23. The two outer distant's No's 11 and 23 would have been below New Southgate's up slow starter. Mickey......can you remember if this arrangement was still in place when you were in the loco ? Do you think up distant's No's 22 and 23 would have been used as splitting distant's indicating the route was set to go either up slow to up Enfield or up slow to up goods ? The two distant's in the tunnel are shown on the diagram as ground signals.

Eddie

[Mickey]

Interesting Eddie about that 'long crossover' north of Wood Green station and it's 'slotting arrangements' between Wood Green No.3 & Wood Green Up Box No.2. Stevie could probably best answer your questions better than me when i first saw the area around Wood Green Up Box No.2 & New Southgate (box) around the autumn of 1967 Wood Green Up Box No.2s Up slow line distant signals were a inner distant colour light signal on the tunnel wall in the single bore Wood Green tunnel and a outter semaphore distant arm beneath New Southgate's Up slow line starting signal on a straight tubular post and Wood Green Up Box No.2s Up fast line colour light distant signal was on the same x3 aspect colour light signal head on a straight metal tubular post as New Southgate's Up fast line starting signal standing opposite the Up slow line semaphore starting signal.

In G.N.R. days there use to be a tall lattice post signal gantry at Wood Green Up Box No.2 it's shown in one or two old photographs that was replaced by the wooden signal post gantry (a lot of us remember it) around 1915/16 which in turn lasted until about 1974, that wooden signal gantry (it carried x4 dolls) always looked a bit 'top heavy' to me plus it use to have quite a few 'guy lines' attached on either side of it as well.

By the way Eddie i went on the loco at Kings Cross for about 20 months between 1974-75 that was after my time as a telegraph lad at Welwyn Garden City (box) between 1972-74.


Mickey

[Dave Cockle]

According to the Middleton Press book on the Hertford Loop Wood Green No 3 had a forty lever frame. It opened in 1887 and closed on 4th May 1967.

I always thought that the Wood Green S&T gang used the box as a base after it closed but stand to be corrected.

[EddieBN]

Been re-arranging the bookshelves but couldn't resist having a look at the books at the same time ! I have copies of LNER Albums 1to3 by Brian Stephenson first published in 1970. On page 86 there is a picture of GNR Class C11 4-4-2 No.3273 on a special KX - Leeds excursion dated 1925. The train is shown on the down fast passing over the down slow to up slow crossover that I mentioned in an earlier post. I think the picture may have been taken from Wood Green Tunnel (down) box looking south. At this location are two sidings controlled by Wood Green Tunnel box (shown on my No.2 (up) box diagram as down sidings No's 1 and 2) adjacent to the down slow line. The interesting thing about the layout in this 1925 picture is that the crossover continues across the down slow and links up with both these two down sidings. Also the up home signals you mentioned Mickey, are shown but with only three brackets on the one post (up fast, up slow, up slow to up Enfield maybe?) In the background the up carriage sidings are full of GNR 4-wheeled suburban stock. Another picture on Page 6 looking north shows Wood Green Tunnel (down) box with A1 ( or A3? ) 4472 on an up express also dated 1925. I'm thinking my diagram from No.2 box dated 1943 may have been a replacement to take account of the removal of the connections to No's 1 and 2 sidings from the crossover and also an addition of another bracket on the up home signals (up slow to up goods? )

Eddie.

[Mickey]

I have copies of LNER Albums 1to3 by Brian Stephenson first published in 1970.

Yes i also bought the LNER album (the first volume) back in 1970 Eddie when it was first published along with the LMS the GWR & the Great Central albums anyway getting back to the first LNER album book i remember there is a picture taken looking northwards towards Wood Green tunnel with Wood Green Down Tunnel Box in the picture and from memory it's one of the first pictures in the book i seem to recall although i havan't got the book anymore these days and i havan't seen the said picture for around 45 years!.

RP has a track diagram of Wood Green Down Tunnel Box and has previously posted it on the forum.

Mickey

[Mickey]

According to the Middleton Press book on the Hertford Loop Wood Green No 3 had a forty lever frame. It opened in 1887 and closed on 4th May 1967.

I always thought that the Wood Green S&T gang used the box as a base after it closed but stand to be corrected.

I must have just missed it being open Dave cos the first time i saw the redundant box was around June/July of 1967 and it looked to me as though it was being used by the local P.Way gang as a 'lobby' but maybe it wasn't then?.

A 40 lever frame?. Personally i wouldn't have thought the box could have contained a 40 lever frame i would have said 25 maybe 30 levers maximum but if it says a 40 lever frame then it must have been 40.


Mickey

[EddieBN]

Talking of frames, No.2 (up) box had 50 levers (including 7 spare)

Eddie.

[Mickey]

Talking of frames, No.2 (up) box had 50 levers (including 7 spare).

I use to like that box Wood Green Up Box No.2 plus it had that nice BIG (top heavy) signal gantry between the Up fast & Up slow lines and also that nice looking lattice post bracket signal(s) complete with 'top finals' on both of the dolls on the Up Enfield line near the box with both gantrys carrying Wood Green Up Box No.4s distant signals.

Also i believe one of the Creek brothers was regular at the box not that i knew him i just overheard his name mentioned in relation to the box.

Mickey