Heljan Gresley O2 2-8-0 'Tango'

[Woodcock29]

I have been following the development of the O2s by Heljan with quite some interest. At this stage I'm not convinced we've actually seen a photo of a production model yet. My thinking is that those on the Rails site might still be the photos of pre-production models. However we'll see.

My view of the LMS Garratt by Heljan was that it was not a particularly good model. Yes Heljan and Hattons took a big step in deciding to produce the model and should be applauded for that but the finished product was not something that should have won the Model of the Year in my view. The finish on the model was not good based on what I saw with parts falling off and a poor paint finish which looked more like bare plastic in places. Of the 7-8 examples I'm personally aware of that friends here in Adelaide bought, 2 were sent back because they gave up running and one of the replacements did the same so that's 3 failures out of 9 I reckon. The replacement that failed was worked on by the owner who stripped out all the wiring between the two drive units leaving them operating as individual units like a real garratt - it has run fine since then.

I agree with Simon that based on the models on the Rails site that they certainly are not up to the standard I was hoping for. The chimneys are awful and certainly might need to be replaced if the production models are the same - It looks to me like the O2/3 has a tall chimney from GN days which is wrong. The spectacle plates shouldn't have rounded bottoms - but they appear like that in photos of the real O2s because after cleaning the clear part of the glass is rounded off at the bottom! I'm also still to be convinced that the high section of the footplate isn't too high - I look forward to comparison with a decent drawing when I get my hands on one and hope I'm proved wrong - it might just be that the angle of lift where they rise at each end is not correct?

From reports by Tony W on the other site the model has exceedingly good haulage capability.

In regards to an earlier LNER period model I think you'll have to wait some time for a pre-war version as it seems to me from the lists I've seen the only model with shaded lettering that is expected soon will be an O2/4 so it that will be a wartime period loco with its Thompson B1 boiler. I have an LNER O2/3 on order which has postwar numbering so I'll be renumbering and re-lettering that - hopefully I don't have to give it a repaint as well but we'll see.

Here's hoping I'm wrong in most of my comments above.

Woodcock29

[Saint Johnstoun]

I have an LMS Garratt and have no issues with it! It only makes occasional forays on my layout with 40+ wagons.
Being involved as a Consultant with regard to other models (not railway) I know how difficult it is for the manufacturers at times to be 101% accurate and I do think at times one can become a rivet counter par excellence without realising it.

We shall just have to wait and see what the production O2s are like!

[Atlantic 3279]

Not looking good according to an early report on RMW, which states that owing to motor problems and bad fitting of handrails, the big firm in Sheffield is rejecting 60% of its first batch of these models.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... ?p=2172777

[S.A.C. Martin]

I've now had a chance to examine one of the that a friend owns and in due course I will get my own for similar purposes.

The one thing we noted straight away is that the model is superbly smooth in forward gear. There's no doubt of the model's credentials in the running department there. In reverse it was much more hesitant and cut out several times. After some running in this seemed to improve substantially and perhaps is down to bedding the motor in.

The version I looked at was the post war LNER variant. I am unsure if the chimney is correct for this locomotive, but nevertheless it just looks wrong to me in shape. Paint was missing off the cylinders on the loco I looked at, and there were loose handrails all round, but these are easily fixed. Not so easily fixed are the over glued side handrails on the cab, which were also wonky. I may have to drill these out and replace all round to get them straight on both my friend's O2 and mine (to be bought at the next pay cheque most likely).

On balance, there is nothing that isn't fixable on this model for the regular modeller. Very simple fixes, replacement of some parts (buffers for example) and some touching up and weathering will result in an excellent rendition of Gresley's O2.

I understand a lot of research and study has gone into this model from two particular sources, and to them I say bravo. I've noted previously some images cropping up elsewhere of an O2 on Little Bytham and I feel personally that we have no reason to doubt the word of either of the two gentlemen in question.

I do feel - and perhaps this may be a tad unfair, I am happy to be told if so - that Heljan have let the two gentlemen down a little in terms of the QC on this batch of these locomotives. I don't believe my friend's sample is entirely unrepresentative of other models within the same batch. He told me this was the best of a number he had observed in a shop (though I am at pains to say I cannot remember which shop, though he told me previously) and he had bought it feeling that he wouldn't be able to get anything near the quality from a kit built one.

I feel this isn't a missed opportunity by any means. It's a very good model in a large number of ways. There's also a list of niggly things I would personally change for my own peace of mind as a modeller. My only query is the price.

I feel Hornby's O1 is an entirely comparable model and that is by far superior in almost every department out of the box.

The Danes have a done a very good job of the O2, of course, but Hornby's O1 seems much better value for money if you consider the amount of time and the sundries needed to bring the Heljan O2 up to the standard of Hornby's O1. That's for the acid test for me. Other opinions are available and you are entirely free to disregard mine.

One thing is certain in my view. A lot of care and attention has gone into making this model cover the widest range of LNER and BR history possible in its variations. And for that, a lot of thanks and plaudits are due to the two gentlemen who assisted Heljan in the development of this model.

[Horsetan]

Carlsberg don't make O2s, but if they did.....



Carlsberg. Brewed by Danes.

(Other lagers are available.)

[Brush53Falcon]

As I was responsible for starting this thread I suppose I should just remind people the the 'Tango' has finally landed with three out of the first eight releases now at retailers. I haven't actually had a chance to test a production version yet but from what I hear they have been well received.

I must say it's been a bit of an uphill slog and there have been a few down hill bits as well but work must now continue to get the O2/1 and O2/2 to the production line

[mick b]

Pictures here , sorry to say not impressed by the build/moulding quality and the use of plastic handrail knobs amongst many other problems.


http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... -0/page-10

[Hatfield Shed]

...I must say it's been a bit of an uphill slog...

Something this class were very good at by all accounts. Anyone who hasn't been in manufacturing has no idea how difficult it is to 'get it all right'. I have had a varied career in production engineering, manufacturing, materials characterisation; and lounge-lizarding in staff roles in internal audit, marketing, customer services and general management. Manufacturing was toughest by far.

This is the only choice for a RTR O2. It looks like an O2, and will be a lot less trouble than building one; which I have done (and stupidly sold along with much else when my mortgage rate hit 16% in 1981, I was so broke.). This new model will soon be covered in standard BR period grime.

One question if I may: best liquid cement for the Heljan body mouldings? (Never had to do a thing with their diesels so don't know.)

[earlswood nob]

G'day all

I welcome all RTR models of LNER prototypes.

However, the LNER post 1946 variant 3965 (ex-3835) was fitted with a tender with stepped out coping. This tender had originally been connected to a D49, and then for short while to a V2.

There is a 1947 pic of 3965 in the green book part 6B.

AFAIK there were only twelve O2 fitted with flush sided tenders. The 1934 batch of 4, and 8 from the 1942/3, which were fitted with ex-D49 tenders. The remaining 17 of the 1942/3 batch were fitted with ex-D49 tenders with stepped out coping.

I have no intention of buying one as I have two kits to build. One will be completed with the GNR style cab and tender and the other with a side window cab and stepped out tender.

Earlswood nob

[Brush53Falcon]

The tender fitted to the model of 3965 is correct then!

[Woodcock29]

Looking forward to receiving my LNER version ready for re-numbering/lettering and probable repainting. Still hoping it runs ok - should arrive here in Adelaide next week hopefully.

I note that the tender attached to 3965, although of the correct pattern with stepped out coping plate, should have the longer front and rear handrails as the original shorter ones would have been replaced well before the post war renumbering took place. Still that can be easily rectified by fitting longer handrails but I guess that will mean new handrails knobs as I understand the ones fitted are plastic and I can't imagine they'll be easily removed whole?

Those buying this LNER version would do well to paint the buffer bodies black!

I will have to modify the firebox and fit washout plugs rather than handholes as I'm going to backdate it to late 30s. Currently having a look to see what replacement chimneys I have in stock so I can put one on of the correct 1'4" height. Unless my chimney top is blemish free I don't expect to just be shortening the chimney on the model but you never know? Despite Brush53Falcon's comments on the other site about O2/3s being seen with both tall and short chimneys I've yet to find a picture of one with a tall chimney and I have an extensive collection of books.

Woodcock29

[john coffin]

Why oh why are people so pedantic about tenders, when it is clear that everytime the loco went in for a major repair or overhaul, it is almost certain that the tender it came in with was not the same as that it would have left with, due to the time differences in the works done. The fact that there is little photographic evidence is not enough proof to allow anyone to state categorically that no such tender was ever fitted to such a locomotive at any time.

The strangest thing is that for many years, people were just happy to have a loco available, now they want the "correct" tender, but where is the photographic evidence that actually confirms specific tenders at specific times? In my research over the years since publishing the Crawley book, I have yet to find any really detailed photos showing all the stuff I want to know about.

Realistically, you can only model a loco on the day that any photos you have were taken, the following day who know what happened to change things.

[Hatfield Shed]

Having taken delivery of the early BR liveried O2/3, I appear to have lucked into a faultless example. This is a corker of a RTR model, and if I were to identify one feature that lifts it above most OO RTR models it would be the very fine flanges and what look to me to be dead scale motion parts. The prototypically small pony truck wheelset realistically looks small thanks to the fine flange, which is an aid to the character of the model. Runs beautifully, stays on the track, and as heavy as it should be for traction.

If I have a criticism it is the fixed overscale loco to tender spacing, which will need some thought to adjust to scale as the drawbar has the connecting wires integrated on it; and the lack of a fall plate to cover the loco to tender gap! So my modelling effort will go into the cab area, what with the already identified incorrect firedoor needing correction.

Excellent stuff, credit to Heljan and those in the UK who have been closely involved in its gestation, your efforts are appreciated here. Bring on the O2/1 and O2/2. They may not have been most typical of the class in the BR period but I so like the traditional Doncaster cab.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Why oh why are people so pedantic about tenders, when it is clear that everytime the loco went in for a major repair or overhaul, it is almost certain that the tender it came in with was not the same as that it would have left with, due to the time differences in the works done. The fact that there is little photographic evidence is not enough proof to allow anyone to state categorically that no such tender was ever fitted to such a locomotive at any time.

The strangest thing is that for many years, people were just happy to have a loco available, now they want the "correct" tender, but where is the photographic evidence that actually confirms specific tenders at specific times? In my research over the years since publishing the Crawley book, I have yet to find any really detailed photos showing all the stuff I want to know about.

Realistically, you can only model a loco on the day that any photos you have were taken, the following day who know what happened to change things.

We're not just relying on photographic record only. There's engine cards, publications such as RCTS and Yeadons (with some errors, I accept) and then there's common sense. I do prefer to use photographic record primarily and I've already found about fifteen potential locomotives I could model for my era in 1946-49.

Having it right for the photograph or trying to make a model right for a given time and photograph makes me happy. That's just how I enjoy the hobby.

[Sea Eagle]

O2/3 arrived from Liverpool with smokebox door and tender rear handrails adrift with broken / missing knobs. Right hand horizontal cab handrail was attached at a rather jaunty angle. Otherwise not too bad. I didn't want to risk sending it back only to get one that was worse, so spent this evening in the company of wire and brass knobs. Despite exercising extreme care I still managed to create a little cryanolite bloom, but this will be covered by the heavy weathering which is next up for this loco. Handrails and knobs will be blackened all round as will axle stubs. I think it's going to look good.