Indeed it was Ron.silverfox wrote:John
Was it the attitude of a certain chairman of both the P2 and LNER society?
Ron
John
A4 Liveries
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Re: A4 Liveries
John
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Dave
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Re: A4 Liveries
John.
The drawing is dated 15-06-39......but the 9 could be a very poor 4 of course.
The drawing is dated 15-06-39......but the 9 could be a very poor 4 of course.
Re: A4 Liveries
A '4'? That would be even more curious.Dave wrote:John.
The drawing is dated 15-06-39......but the 9 could be a very poor 4 of course.
John
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Dave
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Re: A4 Liveries
John.
I will send you the drawing.
I will send you the drawing.
Re: A4 Liveries
Thanks Dave,Dave wrote:John.
I will send you the drawing.
The date looks like 1939 to me.
John
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Dave
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Re: A4 Liveries
It's strange John, but what about the tender with Silver Link, I would love to find the drawing.
Re: A4 Liveries
Speaking of 'Silver Link', I have noticed a very small error in Part 2A of the green bibles.
On page 108 it states that 2509 had the rear end of the boiler handrail altered to curve downwards when the livery was altered to garter blue in December 1937, in fact it was altered whilst still in grey. This is not corrected in Part 11 either, as far as I can see.
Assuming the date of the well-known colour picture of 2509 at Grantham is correct, June 1937, the handrail must have been altered at a works visit towards the end of 1936 or very early in 1937.
John
On page 108 it states that 2509 had the rear end of the boiler handrail altered to curve downwards when the livery was altered to garter blue in December 1937, in fact it was altered whilst still in grey. This is not corrected in Part 11 either, as far as I can see.
Assuming the date of the well-known colour picture of 2509 at Grantham is correct, June 1937, the handrail must have been altered at a works visit towards the end of 1936 or very early in 1937.
John
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robertcwp
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Re: A4 Liveries
I looked in some books for photos of A4s in LNER green. Here is what I found:
East Coast Pacifics at Work p91 - 4487 with black smokebox, in service on up Flying Scotsman at Grantham, date given May 1937 (T G Hepburn).
The Gresley Pacifics Part 2 (Nock) p41 - 4482 with what appears to be the parabolic curve style (angle of shot and poor photographic reproduction don't help) leaving King's Cross 6 January 1937 with Gresley himself at trackside.
Power of the A4s:
Plate 17 - ex-works official shot of 4482 with parabolic curve style
Plate 20 - 4487 in service at Newark with black smokebox, dated September 1937
Plate 31 - 4493 at Darlington - parabolic curve style
Plate 37 - 4485 on up Flying Scotsman with black smokebox, dated July 1937 (A Cawston)
The Book of the A4 Pacifics:
Page 69 - 4495 in posed shot - parabolic curve style
Page 71 - 4483 in service at Edinburgh Waverley - black smokebox
The Book of the A4 Pacifics Accompaniments Compendium:
Part I page 44 - 4482 in service - parabolic curve style
Part III page 6 - 4494 in service - not 100% clear but appears to be parabolic curve style
Part III page 36 - 4482 in service - parabolic curve style
Part III page 41 - same shot of 4485 as plate 37 in Power of the A4s
Hope this helps.
East Coast Pacifics at Work p91 - 4487 with black smokebox, in service on up Flying Scotsman at Grantham, date given May 1937 (T G Hepburn).
The Gresley Pacifics Part 2 (Nock) p41 - 4482 with what appears to be the parabolic curve style (angle of shot and poor photographic reproduction don't help) leaving King's Cross 6 January 1937 with Gresley himself at trackside.
Power of the A4s:
Plate 17 - ex-works official shot of 4482 with parabolic curve style
Plate 20 - 4487 in service at Newark with black smokebox, dated September 1937
Plate 31 - 4493 at Darlington - parabolic curve style
Plate 37 - 4485 on up Flying Scotsman with black smokebox, dated July 1937 (A Cawston)
The Book of the A4 Pacifics:
Page 69 - 4495 in posed shot - parabolic curve style
Page 71 - 4483 in service at Edinburgh Waverley - black smokebox
The Book of the A4 Pacifics Accompaniments Compendium:
Part I page 44 - 4482 in service - parabolic curve style
Part III page 6 - 4494 in service - not 100% clear but appears to be parabolic curve style
Part III page 36 - 4482 in service - parabolic curve style
Part III page 41 - same shot of 4485 as plate 37 in Power of the A4s
Hope this helps.
Robert Carroll
Coaching stock: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRC ... Stock/info
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Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp
Re: A4 Liveries
Robert,
All that fits with the known facts about the 'full-black' smokeboxes as far as I am aware.
Yeadon's Register:
4482 parabolic curve, page 10.
4486 Merlin straight smokebox to first band behind chimney, page 19.
4487 Sea Eagle, livery as above, page 20.
4483 Kingfisher is in this livery too, on page 12, but the photo is not clear.
John
All that fits with the known facts about the 'full-black' smokeboxes as far as I am aware.
Yeadon's Register:
4482 parabolic curve, page 10.
4486 Merlin straight smokebox to first band behind chimney, page 19.
4487 Sea Eagle, livery as above, page 20.
4483 Kingfisher is in this livery too, on page 12, but the photo is not clear.
John
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Graeme Leary
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Re: A4 Liveries
Yes, I know I said no more postings for 2015 but I have just managed to lay my hands on RCTS Part 2A and p117 and top of p118 do confirm that there were a number of Black painted A4s with just NE 'displayed' which I assume means on the tender. ( Numbers 2510/1; 4462/3/5/82/3/93/4, 4900/1/3). So my assumption that it was just the 3 named after the children of one of the directors of LNER that had just N and E seems to be wrong (but more importantly for my list of 'must do's' for 2016, I can now take out adding L and R to either side of NE on my already Black painted 4903/Peregrine. However, I have a rather poorly painted LNER Green which I will redo in Black with ALL 4 letters - LNER - so that should satisfy all sticklers for detail (including myself!) Thought you'd want to know that (and once I master putting photos on the forum I may just post a shot of my 'fleet' of A4s).
Graeme
Graeme
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robertcwp
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Re: A4 Liveries
A couple more photos of LNER green A4s to note:
Yeadon Named Trains on LNER Lines Part 1 p31: 4484 with black smokebox on the Flying Scotsman.
Yeadon Named Trains on LNER Lines Part 2 p158: 4493 with parabolic curve style. Incidentally, I think this photo is captioned wrongly. The train is captioned as being the down Silver Jubilee but is the up train unless the formation is running the wrong way round, which is possible. It also must be after February/March 1938 as the extra carriage to make the third twin into a triplet is present. Unusual to see a photo of a green A4 on a streamliner.
Yeadon Named Trains on LNER Lines Part 1 p31: 4484 with black smokebox on the Flying Scotsman.
Yeadon Named Trains on LNER Lines Part 2 p158: 4493 with parabolic curve style. Incidentally, I think this photo is captioned wrongly. The train is captioned as being the down Silver Jubilee but is the up train unless the formation is running the wrong way round, which is possible. It also must be after February/March 1938 as the extra carriage to make the third twin into a triplet is present. Unusual to see a photo of a green A4 on a streamliner.
Robert Carroll
Coaching stock: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRC ... Stock/info
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp
Coaching stock: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRC ... Stock/info
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp
Re: A4 Liveries
Robert I believe you are correct.
The Mileposts suggest an Up train approaching Darlington.
The SJ records in the Gresley Observer show 4493 only ever hauled the Up service whilst in green, and then only twice, first on Monday 11-4-1938 and again on 19-4-1938. The train didn't run on 18-4-1938 as it was Easter Monday. The photo in the Yeadon volume records one of those occasions.
John
The Mileposts suggest an Up train approaching Darlington.
The SJ records in the Gresley Observer show 4493 only ever hauled the Up service whilst in green, and then only twice, first on Monday 11-4-1938 and again on 19-4-1938. The train didn't run on 18-4-1938 as it was Easter Monday. The photo in the Yeadon volume records one of those occasions.
John
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Graeme Leary
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Re: A4 Liveries
Many thanks again all; very helpful and have gone with 'Falcon'/4484 but maybe someone could clear up another couple of related points - my adapted A4 has a single chimney AND valances (plus a corridor tender). Are these 'correct' for the 'full' black smokebox green Falcon I now have?
Happy New Year to all.
Graeme
Happy New Year to all.
Graeme
Re: A4 Liveries
Yes only Four A4's had double chimneys in LNER days. RCTS 2A lists all of them.
Re: A4 Liveries
I have a Photomatic Postcard, quite an early one I think, unfortunately no date or location shown but it depicts 4484 in a yard, maybe Ferme Park. The loco is all over green with the full squared black smoke box, single chimney and would appear to have a corridor tender. The livery is as noted by Robert in "Yeadon Named Trains on LNER Lines Part 1 p31: 4484 with black smokebox on the Flying Scotsman".
Not sure about copyright but would be happy to post a scan here if it helps,
Steve
Not sure about copyright but would be happy to post a scan here if it helps,
Steve