Brakes on milk trains

[earlswood nob]

Morning all on a wet day in Surrey

Somewhere (probably on here) I have read that milk trains ran with a brake attached for guards accommodation.

I am wondering what sort of brake was normally used.
Tatlow NPCS shows a LNWR 6 wheel milk traffic brake. Did the LNER use 4/6 wheel vans or bogie brakes for such traffic?

Earlswood nob

[jwealleans]

You see a great many D 171 PBVs being used in the NE area for milk traffic.

Photos I've looked at for a future milk train for Wickham Market show a variety of vans in use. The train will eventually have an LMS 42' van on the model.

My understanding was that the van also provided for any residual churn traffic, so there had to be adequate capacity for that.

[earlswood nob]

Afternoon all

Thanks JW for the info.

Earlswood nob

[65447]

As JW says, in addition to the required brake/guard, the vans were also to provide for the milk still in churns so the number and capacity of the vans related to that requirement. On the GE Section the van could be anything from a Dia 120 4-wheel Brake to any of the full-length vestibule types, and in BR days that could include 'foreign' vans, such as the LMS type mentioned by JW - in this instance there is a photograph of an LMS van at the head of a short train of milk tanks - or a BR Mk1 BG. As the milk traffic gradually transferred to road, so the likelihood that there was only 1 van required.

Milk tanks were also included in other workings, either near or at the front of the formation or as tail traffic to a passenger service.

[1H was 2E]

The other three railway companies operated milk tank wagons, initially 4 wheeled and later converted to six wheeled, from the mid thirties but I don't recollect ever seeing reference to any LNER tanks (being pedantic, the underframes belonged to the railway but the tanks to the dairy). Or have I missed something?
With reference to the use of LMS 40' vans; these had end doors and this is generally regarded as to allow cars to be loaded. However, I have discovered (can't remember source) that (on the LMS - I know) they were used for milk churn traffic to allow rapid loading at an end dock. Perhaps the LNEER - or some districts - had a similar policy. It helps to explain why so many parcels vans, right up to the BR CCT and GUV, had end doors. The number of vans fitted did seem out of proportion to the quantity of motor cars carried. Of course, the 'M' in PMV is wonderfully ambiguous (?amtriguos) - for Motorcar, Miscellaneous or Milk...

[65447]

Of course the LNER operated Milk Tank Wagons, initially 4-wheel then 6-wheel, tank capacities 2,000 and 3,000 gallons, together with Wagons for transporting the Dyson 4-wheel and 6-wheel road tanks, to a number of Diagrams for various dairies. Locations served included Kittybrewster, Ingestre, Leyburn, N Elmham, Stowmarket and Halesworth.

For information and drawings see Historic Carriage Drawings Volume 3 - NPCS - compiled by Peter Tatlow, and the various, including the most recent, NPCS books by David Larkin.

As to the 'M' in PMV, the LNER used 'M' on it's own for Milk Vans, and even had it's own specific Milk Van to Diagram 87, as well as using various other vans as stated above. Some of it's constituent companies also had specific Milk Vans.

[D2100]

... the Dyson 4-wheel and 6-wheel road tanks, .

An early example of vacuum packing?

[Dave]

The latest LNER Soc Journal (63) has a very interesting piece on LNER milk tankers, by Anthony Miller.

[JASd17]

Glad you got your digital copy Dave.

Printed copies are in the process of being posted.

John

[1H was 2E]

My apologies for extrapolating from "I never saw a milk tanker train on the ER" to "don't think the LNER had any". I'm afraid it's the "Black swan" logical flaw.
However, in my defence, the other three regions had plenty of evidence around London during the day time; I wonder where were the ER tankers were discharged and stabled on the London area, and when that traffic ceased. The MMB replaced the (usually very scruffy) WR six wheelers with new tanks clad in stainless steel on 4 wheel air brake underframes (the u/f secondhand ISTR) for the Lostwithiel and Felin Fawr flows around '85 but I never saw such wagons on the other regions. They had a very short life before the increase in hgv maximum weights made road more attractive (except when it snowed).

[65447]

I wonder where were the ER tankers were discharged and stabled on the London area, and when that traffic ceased.

Already discussed here... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10323 The traffic lasted into the 1960s, basically dying with the demise of the Milk Marketing Board.