adrianbs wrote:... will they persuade retailers to stock them when their shelves are already full and this will give them even more of a problem shifting existing stock at a profit...
It's going to need a very bold (= expensive) marketing strategy to buy the shelf space from most retailers. Success requires getting a genuine and unique range in front of customers. A seven plank wagon looks about as relevant to this as HobbyCo/Vi's idea of re-engaging the OCDT* club proved; existing competitors have well fulfilled the demand for the item and the interest is past peak. Going up against Hornby with an obscure SR tankie - good luck with that...
I wish them well but cannot help but feel that the shelf space war will be won by whichever of Dapol, DJM or Oxford is firstest with the mostest in wholly new introductions to the UK RTR market, while Bachmann are still performing slowly. Just a year back with Bach, Dapol and Hornby all in slow motion the opportunity window was open rather wider. Optimist though I am, there's going to be a squeeze, with a casualty likely.
From the pictures of wagons shown at the Bluebell Railway open day a few days ago it would appear that Oxfordrail have made no major tooling upgrades, as they still have most errors and hugely protruding couplers. It appears they are going ahead with production although the “Plank groove” across the middle of the headstock has gone. They also seem to have lengthened the end door strapping so some tooling work has been done. There have been no further comments beyond saying the printing has been improved to make the white more opaque. Sadly, even at about £9-00, if they are produced as shown, they can hardly be called value for money and should be relegated to the equivalent of Hornby's Railroad or Thomas the Tank Engine sector of the market place. It seems a sad waste of money when it could have been put to much better use and does not reflect well on the Company, bearing in mind their stated aims in the early pulicity.
Whilst Oxford’s LSWR Radial locomotive might not appear to have any relevance to LNER modelling it should be pointed out there is a rather tenuous link insofar as one was based at Catterick Camp, North Riding for 2 or 3 years until 1923 when the LNER sent it packing back down south for disposal at the Erith dump. Horror of horrors it had been rebuilt for the military at Swindon with a GWR safety valve casing and possibly painted GWR green before going “UP NORTH”. 4 others operated on the Highland from 1918 till 1919 or ’21 at Kyle of Lochalsh, Perth and Inverness. The Catterick Loco would need some butchery as it has the short side tanks that do not seem a likely variant from either Hornby or Oxfordrail. At the moment my money is on the Hornby version although both have some way to go yet before release. In those days locos were not piggy-backed by road so at some point these locos may have travelled on the pre-group and in one case post group LNER rail network. Whether under their own steam or being hauled I have no idea and they must have stopped a few times for refreshment if under steam.
adrianbs wrote: Sadly, even at about £9-00, if they are produced as shown, they can hardly be called value for money and should be relegated to the equivalent of Hornby's Railroad or Thomas the Tank Engine sector of the market place.
I have to say that's more than a bit harsh, Adrian. True, they're not as good as they could, or arguably should, have been, but in my estimation, the price differential between them and the Bachmann equivalent is a fair reflection of the fact that the Oxford one is not quite as accurate. As I've said before, they are still streets ahead of the distorted POs knocked out by Hornby and Dapol.
I agree that the Hornby and Dapol models don't just leave a lot to be desired, they pretty much leave everything to be desired, They are, of course, decades old now and whilst "New" versions appear with monotonous regularity they are only livery changes, many of which are just as lacking in authenticity as all the Oxfordrail versions appear to be. Had the Oxfordrail models been announced with accurate authentic liveries on wagons with the shallow end door to match the diagonal design on the model and the correct doorside washer strips I would not have been so harsh. It would then be possible to modify the model by cutting down the end door and reinstate the hinge bar, remove the capping rail clips and touch in any damaged paintwork. This would remove some of the worst errors but still leave most of the smaller errors and the most obvious errors, the odd repaired corner plate and parallel end stanchions Purchasing Bachmann wagons on Ebay would be a rather better and probably cheaper option requiring much less corrective work. Even buying discounted new Bachmann wagons is not that much more expensive although as yet the discounted price of Oxford wagons has not been established. Oxfordrail have made statements about the standard to which they intend to work, relative to present competition, and this is not apparent on the samples shown which appear to be the end product.
adrianbs wrote:... Oxfordrail have made statements about the standard to which they intend to work, relative to present competition, and this is not apparent on the samples shown which appear to be the end product.
I read that too, and agree that on the showing so far I anticipate them hitting the mean point - at best - for near contemporary all-newly tooled RTR OO introductions, rather than the target best in class status.
Their die cast road vehicle models are doing them a disservice in my opinion. Now, I normally pay no attention to this field, but recently had cause to look at a product. It scored poorly by the standards routinely applied to model railway. The model in question the 'little grey Fergie'. Asking price around £5 for what is a blob in detail terms. No daylight through the engine bay, which is essential to a realistic first impression. Where are the etched parts required for a scale rendition of the seat, steering wheel, three point lift, exhaust? First two grossly overscale in plastic, last two completely absent. Starting from that standard it is a long and steep climb to what is routinely achieved on RTR model railway product.
Hi All And Dapol, and Heljan and Kernow and Hattons. Let's just hope Hornby keep up the current good work, not perfect, but at least well within acceptable standards.
Ni From what has been shown only a couple of errors on the OR wagons have been corrected which still leaves them woefully lagging behind the standard of the Bachmann equivalents. They have obviously sold well, especially to those with short arms and long pockets whose only criteria are price and pretty colours. The unsuitable liveries make one wonder just what OR are planning for the future. Some modellers have been clamouring for BR livery versions but even when informed that Bachmann versions are already available at virtually the same price or indeed cheaper they still keep their hands in their pockets and the available stock remains unsold !!.
I have been in contact with Bachmann about the forthcoming LNER (and LMS ) liveried 7 plank POWs in the hope of persuading them to do a new slide for the non door end with steel stanchions instead of timber. They did reply, which was more than OR did to two of my emails, but were rather non committal. Perhaps if a few more LNER modellers also emailed them they might oblige. I would even commission such a tool if there were sufficient interest but unfortunately the latest versions seem to have taken a step backward for some reason. Originally they had the correct special buffers and coupling hook plate with upward extensions to prevent the floor sliding out when tipped. These now seem to have gone and been replaced with the normal items at the non door end. Their reply to that seemed to indicate that they had not noticed the change. If I hear any more I will post again. A
Hi All At last some new RTR LNER standard wagons. Oxford have announced both a 6 plank 9' wb unfitted open to Diagram 3, by far the most important of the standard merchandise opens. In addition there will also be a 9'wb FITTED cattle wagon of the standard design. It all sounds too good to be true doesn't it. Well these illustrations are hopefully not the final design although from the comments they may already be fully tooled. If these are the final product then the open is certainly too good too be true as the brakegear is back to front and there may well be brakeshoes on both sides if they have reutilised the components from the POWs. This will mean quite a lot of additional work and expense to rectify to represent the correct Morton RCH 9'wb brakegear. I have my suspicions about the riveting pattern on the corner plates and I don't like the rather spindly looking buffers either. The buffers look like a carry over from the POWs unfortunately.
At this stage the cattle looks like a rather poor kitbuilt model, even missing one of the brakeshoes so I will refrain from commenting until I have seen something that looks more like a production sample. We can of course hope for better when the models are available but based on the products from Oxford to date, I rather doubt that. Sadly if they have queered the pitch for anyone else it will be back to the kits for the next couple of decades for those modellers who are of the "More discerning" frame of mind. Regards A
I act as consultant on Oxford diecast's omnibus range but as far as the railway and other models are concerned I have no influence. The tractor models are poor - and Hatfield Shed Take Note as one of the leading authors on tractor history and an ardent detailer and converter of 1:16 scale tractor models myself as well as my OO railway activities I think they could have done a lot better here. One thing that the purists fail to grasp is the compromises one has to make with regard to mass production - the more extra bits requiring to be glued on with little far eastern hands the more expensive the model nowadays.
Open criticism of other people's hobbies is asking for Dastardly Anorak to call!
Hi all Have a look at ORs interesting interpretation of an LNER cattle wagon vacuum pipe. The lack of partition locators is not that serious, just annoying and the brake lever looks as if some work will be needed,or a replacement. The 6 plank has indeed got brakeshoes both sides, anyone ever seen one like that ?? Good job they forgot the required X shaft as the brakes would never work at all although with only one Vee I doubt they would work anyway. Adrian
It does look like Oxford might do best by engaging a knowledgeable consultant for model railway to help avoid simple errors.
Saint Johnstoun wrote:...The tractor models are poor - and Hatfield Shed Take Note as one of the leading authors on tractor history and an ardent detailer and converter of 1:16 scale tractor models myself as well as my OO railway activities I think they could have done a lot better here...
I have to say I looked at the LGF and thought, that is so low cost in manufacturing terms they must coin it on productions like that. (Diecast piece, one colour stove enamel, apply a dozen parts with small hand tool assistance for forming the axle ends, it's a minute of assembly operation for the slowest operative on a really bad hangover.) So to the why of an entry to OO model railway where expectations are way higher on both appearance and the requirement for functionality, for not a lot more money in reality? (No idea of relative market sizes between road and rail models.)
Dastardly Anorak is very welcome to call. He'll find a lot to talk about with me, the King of Rohan, and my mates Callous Crombie and Barbourous Waxcoat. If he behaves the Queen of Hobbes may give him a cup of tea.
I offered my services but the person who handles the Diecast Vehicles has nothing to do with the railway stuff and my suggestion seems to have fallen on deaf ears - its a case of not necessarily knowing yourself but knowing somebody or somewhere that the correct information can be gleaned from.
Unfortunately I came on board after the tractor models had been produced or there would have been a few words! There have however been a few clangers with the vehicles too - it seems that sometimes getting those in the Far East to understand is tricky!
Hi All Like Saint Johnstoun I also offered advice but not only do I think they are very hard of hearing but it seems there eyesight could do with a lot of help from a certain well know opticians. Sadly they are by no means alone in this respect, especially when the least accurate, by far, of all the contenders for a certain MOTY award actually comes out well on top this year. Even the OR Radial with all its faults still scores far higher in terms of accuracy and even livery in one instance. This proliferation of poor quality products is doing serious harm to companies which are doing a far better job. I know this is considered to be capitalism and market forces but there are agents at work who are seriously skewing the opinion of the general public and could very well lead to unforeseen and disastrous consequences. The finances of many businesses in this sector are under considerable strain and it is a bit like the story of the butterfly which flaps it's wings eventually causing a hurricane.
