Livery question.

[MikeTrice]

Can anyone tell me the radius of the white/black/white corners on tenders please? I don't recall ever seeing it mentioned.

Thanks.

[Postman Prat]

Hi
If it helps I've got the details for BR Green, as applied to a Black 5 cab (although it never happened until preservation)

Lower cab - by running plate 7" radius (outside)

Rest of corners 4" radius (outside)

From outside, inwards - Orange 1/8", green 1/2" black 1" green 1/2" Orange 1/8"

Best I can do - hope it helps

[Kestrel]

Whilst the green RCTS book 1 gives the thickness of lines as you may have seen, nothing is mentioned of the radius of same. Maybe it's worth a call to the NRM. I'm sure others would be interested.

[john coffin]

what kind of tenders actually MIke, pre grouping, or post.

Paul

[MikeTrice]

Paul, does it matter? I assumed that pre-grouping that was turned out in LNER livery later (such as the GNR Atlantics) would follow the normal dimensions regarding lining and the radius of the corners. Out of interest, yes I would be interested for pre-grouping liveries as well such as the "scolloped" corners of GNR locomotive/tenders. Actually it looks as if the LNER followed the NER dimensions but as I don't have those either it does not help.

It would certainly be nice to know what it is for Group Standard and the 8 wheelers.

[john coffin]

Mike, it was just that I thought you were still thinking about the Single !!!

I have some details and a painting diagram for a 2-4-0, s will check it out and see what helps.

There is a series of drawings to show various painting details, but how many are still at York, difficult to gauge, especially now that you
have to book so far in advance to view them.

Paul

[notascoobie]

There was me also thinking that this was about pre-Grouping GNR livery!

If you can find something Paul that would be great. I've looked in my GNR books but can't find anything.

Regards,

Vernon

[MikeTrice]

Sorry for not being specific in the original post.

I am actually interested in the radius for the LNER primarily but would welcome information on GNR and NER as well if anyone has the info.

[john coffin]

NO measurements, but some data to go on with. This part of 3 drawings I have claimed to be by F. Moore and found in the Doncaster collection of drawings.

I think, because I need to check out all the other details, it is either R15, or 19.

Measurement to underneath of soleplate is 4ft 2inches, and the wheelbase is 6ft 6 +6ft 6, so if you want to scale you will be pretty accurate.
The lining on the rear is the same distance from the edges as on the sides, with the same radii.

HTH
Paul

have tried to up load the drawing 3 times, but cannot see it, please let me know what I have done wrong!

[52D]

Mike you will find the NER detail in the appendix to Hooles book Locomotives of the NER, regrettably I cant offer you a scan as my copy is on loan assisting a modeller.

[MikeTrice]

I agree, Ken Hoole's book is very good, but I still cannot find any mention of the radius of the corners.

[65447]

A little lateral thinking might be appropriate now. You have the dimensions of the lining and its component colours therefore it should be reasonable to interpolate the radius of the corner in relation to that known dimension, given enlargement of that part of a good square-on works or similar photograph. There are times when close enough has to be good enough, given that the radius was unlikely to be exact.

[john coffin]

Having not been able to find the details written I must I fear take a bit of a punt with the Stirling and probably Ivatt tender lining.

Based on a Doncaster drawing that includes No 234 a 2-2-2, and my experience with other dimensions on other GNR locos,I would make
the following suggestions.

The GNR tender has a single line that is prominent black, with outside on top and bottom of white, the corners are reverse curves. Overall,
I feel the lining is 2 inches thick overall. The vertical are equally inset at each end, about 6 inches, at the front the measurement is taken
from behind the beading at the front. The Handrails are in the middle of that space. The inner curve is I believe 7 inch radius, thus the outer
curve is 5 inches.I believe the lower horizontal line at the bottom is 3 inches above the soleplate, and the upper horizontal is 2 inches below
the edge of the flare.

Somewhere I have I think seen some LNER lining diagrams, I have certainly seen a copy of the cab side lettering for some GNR locos
which of course had sidesheets too short to take normal letters, but finding it is another matter, will look later.

Paul

[MikeTrice]

Thanks Paul.

For the record for the GNR the black is 2.25" wide with a white line 1/8" either side.

[61962]

Just to confuse, Leech & Body (The Stirling Singles) has a paint diagram that shows the lining to be 2 1/8" overall with 1/8" white lines making the black 1 7/8". The vertical lines are 8" inset from the tender back and ditto tender front measured from the inside edge of the beading. There is no dimension on the radii at the corners but scaling gives about 3 1/2" inside thus 5 5/8" outside. There is a 4' 2" dimension to the underside of the lower line that is, I think, intended to be from rail level. Lettering is stated as 6" high before shading.

Eddie