Oxford Diecast diversifies into railway models

[52D]

As a moderator I have been keeping my eye on this thread, as far as im concerned all the points raised by all parties are valid ones and as long as the thread doesn't degenerate into babble or name calling please continue in a civilised vein.

[Bill Bedford]

Bill - are you sure the whole wagon is die cast? The wagon body looks to be plastic. I have never seen a die cast model with bowed sides like that - they even make mention of it bowing because of being too warm coming out of the machine. There is a comment that it is not a 3D print but is a proper moulding. That surely indicates it is a plastic RTR wagon?

Turn a plastic wagon over and what you see is a block of steel, there to give weight to the wagon. This one has a finely detailed underside with no room for a weight.
Most of the add on parts have a heaviness that comes with diecast.
There is a notch on the inner face of the w-iron keeper that suggests that the inner solebar/w-iron unit is rigid.
Oxford's main business is in diecasting.

Some of the smaller parts, such as couplings, stanchions etc may be plastic, but the main body. is almost certainly diecast.

[adrianbs]

Hi All Bill Bedford has made a further comment about the model being all or mainly diecast citing what you see when you turn over a plastic model. The photos of the underside of the Oxford model very clearly show that the central floor area is lower than elsewhere and is certainly forming a pocket for a ballast weight concealed between the two mouldings. Much of Oxfords output contains plastic parts, not least the clear window components which are always more difficult to produce than coloured plastic parts. They require very high quality tooling and top spec. machines to achieve good clarity. I would put money on the model being almost all plastic, not having any diecast components unlike the 7mm Lionheart POWs. The Vee grooves for the axles are simply to make it easier to fit the wheels and no indication of diecasting.
Having done some careful dimensional checking on the photo of the floor it does seem that there is only one drop door which will pose problems if the tooling has to be modified since it would require the inner slide to be remachined or replaced. A very strange error to make as my GAs are not "Half plan" but show the whole floor with both doors. The plain central area will probably have "Oxfordrail -- made in China " or something similar engraved on it eventually as is normal with models. Let me know if the unexpurgated version of my list is required adrianbs

[Bill Bedford]

If I may be permitted I feel it would be useful if my other findings could be published as some are quite pertinent.

I wouldn't bother. If you judge apples as if they were oranges you are always going to find lots of errors. This is a model that by it's price, construction and dubious liveries is going to be sold alongside the Oxford Diecast cars, i.e. into the 'pocket money' section of the market. Which means that it has to be 'good enough', without necessarily appealing to the small, but very vocal, 'serious modeller' part of the market. In all probability the intention of this model and the remaining wagons in the range is to take market share from Hornby and perhaps Bachmann. So don't expect anything out of the ordinary from Oxford Rail.

[adrianbs]

Hi all and Bill Bedford, I am afraid you are going to be proved right but their claim of "A new level of detail for the most discerning modelers" is already beginning to look very suspect. If they produce locos to a similar standard as this wagon there is every likelihood that the range will crash and burn as soon as it gets off the ground. Hornby are unlikely to make a model that is seriously inferior to the other recent SR locos, even more so if they think a rival may pip them to the post and offer shops a better discount. Even if Hornby have to do a rush job to get to market soon after Oxford I doubt large numbers of railway modelers will queue to buy the Oxford version when they know Hornby is close behind. Most have never seen anything from Oxford rail aimed at the model railway market apart from road vehicles. Oxford are clearly not going for the "Preorder or you won't get one" direct sales approach, at least not as I read it so there SHOULD be time to assess the two together. Hornby may even consider delaying release to slow down the sales by Oxford but the latter are probably too big for that to worry them. adrianbs

[65447]

The claim of a new level of detail is not necessarily suspect; the detail is there but it just may not be the correct detail. At least it is far better than those steel underframe 10' wheelbase 1923 specification wagons masquerading as turn-of-the-previous-century wooden underframe 9' wheelbase PO variants produced as limited editions to commissions...

This is beginning to descend into the levels not usually found on the 'enlightened side' and I suggest that for those of us who are really concerned about the accuracy further debate is irrelevant - we just won't be purchasing the models but others are equally entitled to be offered a choice.

[mick b]

Wait and see until a production model arrives , any good buy it if you want any or don't bother if you don't want any .

I think this thread can be locked, as starting to go nowhere until something is actually for sale. IMHO.

[D2100]

... If they produce locos to a similar standard as this wagon there is every likelihood that the range will crash and burn as soon as it gets off the ground.

I seriously doubt that, Adrian. I have every regard for your achievements in this hobby, but with respect, I think you're out of touch with the modern RTR market. There are poorer products on the market, as I'm sure you're aware.

I think this thread can be locked, as starting to go nowhere until something is actually for sale. IMHO.

Well I wouldnt agree there Mick, although it's Richard's call of course. I can sense from previous experience that one particular angle is at risk of being done to death, but that's no reason for the rest of us to miss out on a worthwhile debate about the entry of a new player to the market.

[IAK]

Shall we just wait and see what appears?

[richard]

At the moment I don't feel like locking the thread, but it does seem like the thread has exhausted the discussion and is starting to repeat itself with no gain. Let's face it, the whole thing is vapourware(*) until a model actually ships.

I'm reminded of a new entrant in N gauge that has promised the earth - but it is all talk until we actually see something. Hopefully we'll be positively surprised

Richard

(*) A computer term for a promised product that is all marketing and never actually ships. Alas, far too common.

[65447]

At the moment I don't feel like locking the thread, but it does seem like the thread has exhausted the discussion and is starting to repeat itself with no gain. Let's face it, the whole thing is vapourware(*) until a model actually ships.

Richard

(*) A computer term for a promised product that is all marketing and never actually ships. Alas, far too common.

I've been in computing since the mid-70s. In the late 90s a favourite marketing & sales term was 'the view from 50,000 feet' - that's where you see a lot but actually perceive very little. Along with that went 'blue sky ware', an even more tenous but wish-fulfilling version of 'vapourware', and 'wonderware' as in 'does anyone know where it is?' for undelivered promised products.

However these days we have the 'cloud', usually found at altitude in an otherwise blue sky and comprised of vapour - I wonder where that came from?

[adrianbs]

Hi all, I have agreed not to post any more of the 33 comments I have listed on the forum but anyone who wishes can contact me by PM for the details.
I have been trying to find matches for the illustrated liveries of the 6 wagons proposed by Oxford but although I have found some they do not have the same running number. The only exact match is Leamington Priors No 10 which is a Gloucester wagon built in 1897 to a totally different size and design. Since the livery of this one and some others with non identical running numbers seem to have 10 tons load capacity it very much looks as though some of these wagons have totally inappropriate liveries for 1923 wagons with 12 ton capacity. Indeed it very much looks as though Oxford would have been far better producing a 1907 or earlier design wagon since they appear to be using liveries suitable for these earlier wagons anyway. Welford appears to be only an 8 ton wagon and Coventry is another 10 ton type.
If anyone can provide photographic evidence of the real wagons as planned to confirm their appearance, this would be very interesting. The pictures on the Oxford site are a bit fuzzy in some cases and the capacity is difficult to read so may be 12 tons.
Regards all adrianbs

[adrianbs]

Sorry folks, I could not resist posting this. Someone from the "dark side" has been reading this forum and given it as a reference for the errors THEY have not yet spotted. This post was immediately followed up by someone else suggesting that looking at the LNER forum should have a health warning attached as it carried comments by A**.
Another post carried a real insult, suggesting the Oxford sample model was made using ABS components. Probably libelous but what do I care ! I can guess the sort of modelers who will be buying these models, having no idea of their shortcomings. Regards adrianbs

[Atlantic 3279]

This topic has certainly got people talking again after the forum showed some post-Christmas lethargy. I think that's a good thing. Clearly we shall not know exactly what the Oxford product will or won't be like until it actually appears, so in a way there's limited value in getting "excited" about questions such as what material is a pre-production model made from. Discussion of the visible details / errors is most enlightening of course.

I'm glad that this forum seems to be free from any tendency for "packs of dogs" to attack contributors whose views are non-conformist. I imagine that the calm, mature nature of discussions on here is best preserved if those of us with any non-conformist ideas avoid expressing those ideas too stridently, repetitively or obsessively and if we all accept that a statement or criticism may bring disagreement from other contributors. I used to have real difficulty at times accepting that points of view other than mine might be valid and that there is non need to contest such points hotly (if at all). I think I manage to tolerate other points of view rather better these days. Life seems much less stressful now that I can usually persuade myself to get on with my own plans and leave others to do things their way without comment.

[SAD Burdett]

Shall we just wait and see what appears?

Steady on Ian,,, but that's no fun at all.
Being a bit of a "non-detailed luddite" it looks fine to me,,, and if I suddenly get this strong urge to have detail where nobody can actually see it then I'll be buying quite a few of them.
If it brings another source of manufacture/conversions into the arena what's the harm,,,, if they don't meet folks varying standards,,,, don't buy one.
But I have to agree it might be best to wait until somebody has actually got their hands on one.

I'm highly amused by the 2 foot or maybe 3 foot detail rule,,, with the way my eyesight is going it won't be long before I'm at the 2 or 3 yard rule!!!
Anybody know a good optician who can help with fuzzy vista's??

SAD