Robinson 8K 2-8-0 (ROD)

[Greedy Boards]

Dear All

am researching the Great War experiences of my Great Uncle, Joseph Leonard, who entered NER service in May 1914, enlisted in the ROD March 1915, and served in one of the New Army Railway Operating Companies of the Royal Engineers on the Western Front from early 1916, until after the Armistice in May 1919. We have found a photograph of him and his crew with a Robinson 8K 2-8-0 (ROD), at Mons, dated May 1919. The locomotive is ROD No 1985, formerly built by North British Locomotive Company as Works No 22043. ROD No 1985 would have been despatched to Northern France/Belgium in late 1918/early 1919, possibly after the cessation of hostilities, and like most of its Class, worked the Northern France/Belgium area in the following months thereafter. I have checked Yeadons, but can't find the specific locomotive history. I know that ROD No 1988 gets a mention in Rob Langham's book 'The North Eastern Railway in the First World War', and that ROD No 1984 was one of 13 ROD 2-8-0s sold to the J & A Brown colliery business in New South Wales, Australia.

Consequently, would anyone know where there might be a definitive source of information on the Class, and how I can track this particular locomotive's history down?

Many thanks

Greedy Boards

[1H was 2E]

Best bet is Heavy Goods Engines of the War Department Volume 1 ROD 2-8-0 by JWP Rowledge pub Springmead Railway Books - I may have a duplicate copy somewhere.
It lists 1985 as returned 9/21, stored at Stratton (???near Swindon) the going to the GWR, no 3051 renumbered 3082.
According to Locomotives of the GWR -part 10- Absorbed Engines lists 1985 as hired to the GWR 11/19, returned 9/21 (suggesting that the 'returned' date in Rowledge is NOT date returned from mainland Europe!) then purchased by the GWR for £1500 in 5/25, into stock 4we 13 June 25 as 3051 again; taken out of service (like all the other ex RODS) after 4 months'; use; stored on Swindon dump. The number series had originally been allocated in order of condition, 3020 - 3049 being the best, and 3050 - 3099 the poor ones, with the best ones being overhauled and fitted with copper fireboxes, and the poor ones being 'touched up' retaining ROD black and scrapped when no longer fir for traffic. Unfortunately for 1985, although it was numbered in the 'better' series when it was examined at Swindon before overhaul in 1/27 it was found to be in poorer condition than first thought so it exchanged numbers with 3082 (which had initially been assessed as in poor condition, but subsequently found to be suitable for long term retention.It entered service, as 3082, in 1/27, and was withdrawn 3/30 (and put on the sales List, but not sold) and cut up at Swindon. Hope this makes sense - it's complicated.

[Greedy Boards]

Many thanks for the info, seems that my Great Uncle may have outlasted his locomotive! Just by chance, does the Rowledge publication identify the ROD unit that it might have been allocated to in Northern France/Flanders? We've managed to get his medal card record, but not his service record card so far. Could be that this was damaged/lost during World War Two.

Regards

Greedy Boards

[Bryan]

For any info like that I would be approaching Kew.
There are some records held at Chatham but more chance of papers missing. Kew tends to have fuller records.
However some more advice may be obtained from this forum;- http://ww2talk.com/forums/
Some of the members have access to war diaries and other records, if not they can point you in the right direction.
They are not just limited to WW2

[Atlantic 3279]

If you are not already aware of it, the issue of Locomotives Illustrated that dealt with the 8K/ROD class could well be worth a look.

[1H was 2E]

The Routledge book gives 1985 as built 12/18, and states that locos were despatched to France as soon as they were completed.
The author also says that "very soon after the fighting stopped the need for these engines was very drastically reduced and the few new engines sent to France seem to have been replacements of the earliest which by then were getting due for more than just day to day attention. The arrivals in December 1918 to February 1919 (listed, incl 1985) and the work of the class was now confined to little more than moving the troops back home and keeping those that remained supplied. It will be evident from the build date that 1985 was not active during the War itself.
The author makes no reference to the allocation of these locomotives except that 1983 (also built 12/18) was specially painted and adorned with the badge of the Royal Engineers for use attached to Earl Haig's staff train.
To some extent, the condition of a locomotive after use by the ROD dictated the likely length of its survival, because buyers obviously chose the best ones first. Ironically therefore 1985 must have seen heavy use in France so that its condition was such that it was not considered by the GWR to be worth retaining long term. There were very approximately 200 engines that never turned a wheel for the ROD.

[Greedy Boards]

Looks like the life of 1985 was short-lived for its thirty plus months on the Continent, between December 1918 until September 1921, yet its condition back in UK was such that it hardly worked thereafter, before being cut up in 1930.

It would appear that ROD units were actually reinforced towards the end of World War One, not only to cope with the large amounts of military traffic, but also to render assistance to the local populations in France and Flanders. However, three months after the Armistice, the Belgian Railway authorities Etat Belge took back responsibility for their rail network in February 1919. So why would 1985 be seen at Mons three months later?

Whilst hostilities ceased on 11th November 1918, the British Army crossed the German frontier on 3rd December 1918 with five corps, totalling ten infantry divisions and one cavalry division, totalling possibly 250, 000 men, and headed for the Rhine, and Cologne in particular. Once ensconced as part of the Allied Occupation of the Rhineland, the troops were then allowed to submit requests for demobilisation, based on years of service, and/or being employed in key industries back in Britain. This large force quickly reduced in size to circa 13,360 by August 1920, some eight months later, so you had supplies going east from the Channel ports, with large numbers of troops going home the other way.

A diary kept by Thomas Frederick Littler, a Sapper in 228 Field Company RE, describes the rail route home from Honrath, via Rosrath, Cologne, Duren, Aix-La-Chapelle (Aachen), Liege, Huy, Namur, Nivelles, Charleroi, Mons, Ath, Tournai, Lille, Hazebrouck, and finally Dunkirk for the subsequent boat home. The journey took some three and a half days of travel, and I conservatively estimate that the journey would be some two hundred and eighty miles long one way, depending on how shattered the rail network was, and that I guess that there wasn't any other locomotives to share the load, so coaling and taking on water would have added extra time. In addition, consider the need to get the original railway volunteers back to their former employment back in Blighty, then you can see a reduction in the experience of the ROD crews left behind, and the potential for falling standards in maintenance and operation, when the emphasis was all about getting the Boys back home.

It seems that 1985 may have been a victim of the speed of recovery from Europe after the end of World War One, but I fancy that its mileage covered through France, Belgium and Germany would be something else.

Regards and many thanks for all info provided

Greedy Boards