A4 incident at Kings Cross

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:04 pm

A question?. A Gresley A4 standing at the head of 17 bogie coaches at Kings Cross starts out from platform no.5 and makes it's was across the pointswork and enters Gasworks tunnel on the Down Main no.1 line and on entering the tunnel and passing under the 'Regents canal dip' starts the climb on the 1 in 105 rising gradient proper but slips violently on the gradient so the locos regulator is closed and opened and closed and opened but the loco driving wheels still can't get a grip on the greasy rails plus the sanders aren't working on one side of the loco so eventually the loco and train comes to a standstill 40 yards short of the northern end of the tunnel all the while the safety valves have lifted and are blowing off continously!!.

Question how noisy would it be on the footplate??.

giner · Post by **giner** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:46 pm

Pretty close to a Black Sabbath concert, no doubt.

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:53 pm

That loud giner in that case i think i'll stay in the s/box the old ears are a bit more delicate these days.

By the way that description was of a true incident that took place in February 1945 although i didn't mention that after the loco and train had come to a stand on the 1 in 105 rising gradient in Gasworks tunnel the whole train started to roll backwards back down the grade into Kings Cross station but doesn't get that far before the rear vehicle comes off the road on a set of points.

52H · Post by **52H** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:37 pm

Hi all
The trouble with slipping in tunnels ,you didn't know what direction you were travelling. The old drivers trick was to touch the tunnel walls with the brush.

52H

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:54 pm

Yes so it appeared in this case 52H it's mentioned in the official report that the driver wasn't aware that the train was rolling backwards??.

Mention is also made of the fireman that he wasn't looking in to good away when a locoman eventually made his way up from Passenger Loco through Gasworks tunnel and climbed up onto the footplate of the A4.

It brings it home how much a 'skill' driving & firing a steam loco was those railwaymen were deservedly well respected.

Andy W · Post by **Andy W** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:34 pm

And the result of that accident was the fitting of proper tunnel lights in Gasworks Tunnels at KX. Many years later I had the dubious pleasure of being in one bore under traffic conditions in when we (the ODM chargehand and me as acting STO) were sizing up what needed doing to them on a maintenance possession that weekend. We had a lookout at each end and an agreement that only the 312's would go through while we were in there. One track circuit failure later, a warning blast from the lookout and a Deltic on a semi fast appeared. The noise and smoke in there was something else as we each hit a recess. Two stroke diesel exhaust with a hint of lub oil leaves an odd taste in your mouth.

manna · Post by **manna** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:10 pm

G'day Gents

If anyone ever had the experience of attending to a Deltic's boiler, when the Deltic was working flat out at 100mph, and without earmuff's I think you'd have a rough idea on how noisy it would have been on the footplate of that A4. I've been at KX when one of the Pacific's has had there safety valves blow, the platforms were wet for a 100yds around.

If I remember correctly, wasn't that the incident that knocked the signal gantries' at KX, so they removed the rest.

manna

StevieG · Post by **StevieG** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:16 am

Links to the http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk website regarding the 4th Feb. 1945 incident : -

- the index results page :
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/events ... ventID=863

- the summary text of the Accident Report :
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsum ... ?docID=838

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:12 pm

I noticed you refer to this incident on another Kings Cross topic thread Stevie about 5 years ago but nobody picked up on it?.

Your right manna the engine compartment of a Deltic with just those turbines idling while standing still was enough to nearly blow your eardrums let alone while both Napier turbines were working flat out!!.

They wouldn't do that now Andy they would have to take a complete possession of the tunnel bore.

Thinking back 40 years those electric tunnel wall lights in Gasworks use to come on as soon as a train was just about to enter the tunnel on either the Down Slow line, Down Main no.2 line (later on Down Fast no.2 line) Down Main no.1 line (later on Down Fast no.1 line) & Up Relief line i can't recall if the Up Main line & Up Slow line (the eastern tunnel bore) had electric tunnel wall lights that worked in conjunction with a train entering that tunnel on either line mainly because it was fairly rare for me to be on a train that travelled through the eastern tunnel bore?.

hq1hitchin · Post by **hq1hitchin** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:34 am

and one of the two people killed was Cecil Kimber, the man who did so much to develop the MG sports car and make it such a special marque. His house in Abingdon, where the factory used to be, is now a pub.

mick b · Post by **mick b** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:47 am

If you look at the above links there is also reference/report relating to the horrendous death of the A4 Fireman due to the inset coupling and short buffers on the original Silver Grey A4's a very sad read.

1H was 2E · Post by **1H was 2E** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:55 pm

A very similar incident, that also involved an A4, occurred in North Queensferry tunnel on 7th March 1954. The report is also on RailwayArchive - one day I'll work out how to show links...

I've heard of a similar incident on LMS, in the tunnel on the exit from New Street towards Kings Norton, but as this involved one of those pretty poor Midland design 2P 4-4-0s it was less surprising. It's fair to say that, apart from that tunnel (and possibly Primrose Hill) there are no similar situations - gradients in a tunnel - on the West Coast.

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:04 am

1H was 2E wrote:I've heard of a similar incident on LMS, in the tunnel on the exit from New Street towards Kings Norton, but as this involved one of those pretty poor Midland design 2P 4-4-0s it was less surprising. It's fair to say that, apart from that tunnel (and possibly Primrose Hill) there are no similar situations - gradients in a tunnel - on the West Coast.

The LNWR/LMS use to bank in the rear all there main line express departures from Euston station under the main road bridge north of the station and up 'Camden bank' as far as the old Gilbey's Gin warehouse about a mile in distance before the banker would drop off the rear of the train.

On the GN/LNER main line express departures got a push to the end of Kings Cross station platforms but after that they were on there own on the rising gradient through Gasworks tunnel-Belle Isle-'the Holloway bank' to just beyond Holloway north Down s/box where the gradient levelled out towards Finsbury Park.

John Palmer · Post by **John Palmer** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:46 am

The North Queensferry Tunnel accident is covered by the Railway Archive at http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/events ... ventID=676.

A common feature of the North Queensferry and 1945 Kings X accidents that I find interesting is the presence of newly laid rail. This is made the subject of particular comment in Brig. Langley's report on North Queensferry, where a wheel-to-rail line of contact 3/8" wide was noted in the area where the engine had slipped. It hadn't previously occurred to me that until a new rail had worn/deformed due to passage of traffic the contact area might be so narrow.

StevieG · Post by **StevieG** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:42 pm

From what I've read of this KX accident, I've always thought how unlucky it was that the coach got derailed by the points being changed in an attempt to avert a collision in the platform.
All the points were covered by track circuiting so when in either Normal or Reverse position, would be locked by their track circuit(s) being occupied, but once set moving (when their track circuit(s) were clear{ from one position to the other, would complete the movement regardless of TCs then changing o totccupied.
KX's SGE Co.'s point motors (with external facing point lock mechanism), as observed still working in the late 1960s, were quite quick-acting, and could unlock, fully move, and re-lock points in approx. 2.5 - 3 seconds.

I can only conclude that the insulated block joint that marked the end of the track circuit which locked No. 155 points was very close to the toes of the point's switch rails, and that as the train coming back out of the tunnel, was a movement that had not been signalled, there was no other locking of the points in play at the moment that the signalman initiated changing their position. So my guess is that, although a fraction of a second later the TC would've gone occupied, the points had already started their movement, but the first wheels of the train's rear had already passed the switch rail toes before they moved or while thy were moving, resulting in the vehicle's wheels going different ways/becoming derailed.

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