K3 LNER livery

[Graeme Leary]

Another loco painting project has me changing a K3 BR livery 61932 (Bachmann model) to LNER days and, as a guide I am following a very good photo of 1125 taken from O S Nock's 'The Locomotives of Sir Nigel Gresley, as reliable a source if ever there was one. However, the Bachmann RTR model has quite obvious Red/fine (almost) tan linings on the boiler bands and the tender is lined in Red/White with the 2 colours being about the same thickness and therefore more 'definite' than the loco's boiler bands. The photo (Black/White) in the Gresley book indicates the width of the lining stripes on both loco and tender are probably the same as the Bachmann model but I would be grateful for confirmation that there were the 2 different combinations of colours on the actual loco (Red/fine tan) and tender (Red/White).
An alternative is that some K3's may have been painted 'all-over' Black during LNER days and if this was the case some info on running numbers and/or any other detail would also be very helpful.
Graeme Leary
New Zealand

[Kestrel]

Hi Graeme

No 61932 started life as 1339. It became 1932 in 1946 and then 61932 with BR. It was built in September 1934 and withdrawn in February 1962. Your 1125 was built in April 1931 and withdrawn in January 1962. The RCTS green book 6A has a photo (fig 103) of 1333 at Darlington shed in September 1934 and doesn't appear to have any lining on either the engine or its tender. This was built at the same time as 1339 by R Stephenson & Co. and is listed as a K3/6.

The green book says "The K3s were express goods engines and therefore only qualified for LNER black livery with red lining until November 1941. However no 1007 was turned out in February 1923 in the new green livery following a general repair. This proved to be short lived as it was back in the works four months later with a broken cylinder and emerged in October 1923 as no 1007N, painted black. No 1935 was repainted apple green in November 1946 as part of the post war intention to treat in this manner all LNER engines (except the A4s and the W1 which were again to be blue). The scheme was not pursued and this engine remained the solitary green K3, until it was repainted black in May 1949. During BR days the engines were normally lined out in red, cream and grey."

Having said that, none of the engines in the pre-war photos in the book appear to be lined. Maybe it's because the red disappears on a black and white photo (that sounds silly but you know what I mean). The more informed on this forum can elaborate on that.

193 were built and their LNER numbers were:-
engines at grouping (built 1920-21): 4000-4009 TOTAL 10
engines built after grouping (1924-37): 17, 28, 32/3/6/8/9, 46, 52/3/8, 69, 73/5, 80, 91/2, 109/11-4/6/8/20/1/5/6/7/34/5/40/1/3/6/53/6/8/9/63/7/70/8/80/4/6/8/91/5,
200/2/3/4/6/7/8/27/8/9/31,
1100//1/2/6/8/17/8/9/21/5/33/5/7/41/54/6/8/62/4/6,
1300/2/4/6/7/8/10/2/8/22/4/5/31/2/3/9/45/64/5/7/8/86-9/91/2/4-9,
2417/25-9/38/9/40/2/3/5-51/3/5/8/9/61/3/5-8/70-3/98/9,
2761-9, 2934-40, 3813-32 TOTAL 183

LNER 1946 Nos - 1800-1992
BR Nos - 61800-61992

[jwealleans]

It isn't easy to pick out red lining on prewar photos, but there are enough in Yeadon where it is visible to make me certain that they should all have been lined. I have a feeling that had any not been it would have been commented on (see the J39 volume, for example).

Bachmann didn't line the boiler or cab on their first LNER version, which may be why it was apparently such a poor seller.

I'd leave the red lining on the boiler if it was me and reline the frames, cab and tender in red only.

[2512silverfox]

When interpreting photos pre BR the buffer beam is a dead giveaway. If this is edged black and white, the loco would have had red lining. If the buffer beam is plain red then the loco will be plain black.

[Graeme Leary]

Many thanks kestrel, jwealleans and silverfox - your replies well solve my question, and also gives me a couple of alternatives. (And the reference to 1125 was only because it was the one photo reference I was able to lay my hands on out here in NZ). Now, out with the airbrush!
Graeme Leary

[Hatfield Shed]

When interpreting photos pre BR the buffer beam is a dead giveaway. If this is edged black and white, the loco would have had red lining. If the buffer beam is plain red then the loco will be plain black.

I have to offer contradictory evidence from published colour photos taken in the 1930s which may be found in 'The Big Four in Colour 1935 - 50'. There are a good number of photos showing no black and white edging of the bufferbeam on what are clearly black lined red locos. On some the buffer stocks are red too... On the naughty step, A8, D11/2, D20, D29, D34, Y1; the Y1 is the only Southron and is captioned as having a 'non-standard' style, so presumably this style was a Northern half deviation?

[drmditch]

Discussion on buffer stock colours .....here.....

[2512silverfox]

We were talking about K3s which if my memory serves correctly, were mainly shopped at Doncaster. The locos mentioned in the previous post are in the main Darlington or Inverurie shoppings so my original post holds good for the majority of cases.