Artillery by rail

[Rlangham]

I'm trying to find photos, ideally from WW1 and in the UK, of artillery being moved on standard gauge railways. So far I've managed to find none. Does anyone have any I could see please, for a couple of projects I'm working on? Glad to accept photos of artillery on the continent too. If anyone has any information regarding how it was moved ie on what particular type of wagon, how it was strapped down etc that would also be very useful. Thanks!

[ArthurK]

Though not in England I have a number of photos taken by my father in Mesopotamia in WW1. He was in the Royal Engineers and for a time was on the armoured trains operating in that area. These were, of course, not conveying artillery but I have some picture of the trains and locos. They appear to be standard gauge.

These pictures have been published on RMWEB but I believe this was on the old site. I have made a brief search but cannot find them.

If these are of interest I can post them again.

ArthurK

[Solario]

Rob,

Have you tried the NERA/Ken Hoole collection?

I am sure that I have seen some photos of artillery at Newcastle (ex Armstrong's works).

[Seagull]

I hope Richard will forgive me for posting a link to another forum, but there are a few pictures of a large gun being transported on the Midland Railway in 1916 on the RMWeb.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... et-wagons/

The same thread has several references to books and other websites.

Two other possibilites are the Navweapons website http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/index_weapons.htm
and the Vickers photographs website http://www.dockmuseum.org.uk/archive/ - type 'wagon' into the search box and you get a few pictures.

Good luck with the search

Alan

PS If you find any information about the 1920-1922 "16inch 50cal" I would be interested

[neilgow]

You might wish to contact the STEAM Museum in Swindon, they have many photographs of artillery pieces on rail transport in their archives. Usually pieces that were manufactured in Swindon Railway Works and hauled around the GWR system.

I believe they did a recent article in their magazine on the subject.

NG

[md644]

Hi,

Maybe not quite what you're after, it's a railway gun rather than artillery being moved, but it might be of interest:

http://www.subterraneanhistory.co.uk/20 ... -kent.html


(Apologies if you were already aware/not interested in this aspect)

[drmditch]

Not sure if naval guns (ie guns for warships, not naval guns for use on land) would interest you. I'm sure the NER (and other railways) made arrangements to carry large 12"/13.5"/15" guns.

Here is one picture from the NRM

... obviously there were a lot of these that needed to be moved around the country in the naval armamenr races prior to 1914

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all

I assume that the barrel for the infamous Paris gun of 1917-8 was transported by rail. It was 112ft long, so would make in interesting load.

Earlswood nob

[Bill Bedford]

Not sure if naval guns (ie guns for warships, not naval guns for use on land) would interest you. I'm sure the NER (and other railways) made arrangements to carry large 12"/13.5"/15" guns.

Here is one picture from the NRM

... obviously there were a lot of these that needed to be moved around the country in the naval armamenr races prior to 1914

That is a Midland gun set. I have another version of this photo which shows the vehicle off frame to the left to be a Midland brake van.

NER/LNER gun sets were more substantial as they were used to take finished guns from Armstrongs in Scotswood to their proving ranges in Northumberland where the guns were test fired while still on the wagons.

[Seagull]

That is a Midland gun set. NER/LNER gun sets were more substantial......

The picture is suposed to be from Dec 1916.

Bear in mind that the peacetime Royal Navy would replace a ships guns roughly at 5 year intervals.
A large (12-16") gun barrel being good for about 100-300 firings before requiring relining.

In wartime they would be doing practice shoots far more frequently as well as shooting at the enemy, so I would guess that period would drop to 1 - 2 years maybe less.
At Normandy in June 1944 Warspite and Rodney each used a set of guns in about one week!

My guess is that the pictured set was an ad-hoc job to meet the sudden increase in demand especially as 1916 was a fairly 'busy' year for the RN.

Alan

[52D]

Rob im sure you are aware of Armstrongs gun testing off the Border Counties line, it would be nice to find some pics of those pieces in transit.

[Bill Bedford]

That is a Midland gun set. NER/LNER gun sets were more substantial......

The picture is suposed to be from Dec 1916.

The full photo is published in Britain's Railways at War 1914-18 by Alan Earnshaw.

Part of the cation to this photo reads 'A few gun sets capable of carrying up to 100 tons were available but these were unlikely to be sufficient in a war. In the meantime, guns like the 56 ton example seen at Toton in 1906 had to be carried on an improvised 'gun-set'and is mounted on two MR armour plate wagons (Nos. 116073 and 34842). Traction engine truck D333 and a 10 tone brake van complete the train.'

While 1906 may be a typo, the loco and stock are all MR, so it looks as if the NRM has mis-identified this photo.

[Seagull]

While 1906 may be a typo, the loco and stock are all MR, so it looks as if the NRM has mis-identified this photo.

They have corrected the date to 9 Dec 1916 on the website http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/pho ... y&item=217

The 56 ton weight quoted makes it likely that it's a 12" 45 calibre gun as fitted to the last pre-dreadnoughts, Dreadnought herself and the early battlecruisers.

Alan

[drmditch]

If it is 1906 then 12" would be the largest gun then in use.
I must find my Naval Annual for 1913 to check the weights.

[Seagull]

Been through nearly everything that I have and interestingly there are many photos in gun shops and also of them being craned into warships, but hardly any of the transport from gun shop to shipyard.

The two pictures I have found are as follows:-

'The Battleship Builders' Ian Johnston & Ian Buxton, Seaforth Publishing 2013.
Page 173 (a very small and dark photograph) shows a 13.5" Mk.V at the Coventry Ordance Works ".... is shunted on five (the picture is cropped) bogies out of the works to the Midland Railway main line, before being transported to the proof range"
I'm dubious about the caption as it is an un-fitted barrel - no proof cradle and more importantly no breech mechanism. More likely it's a new barrel ready to be transported to a shipyard for fitting to a battleship. The main part (breech portion) of the wagon is cropped so you can only see about 60% of it in the picture but you can just make out the legend 'Load 70 tons'.

'LMS Wagons Vol. 2' R.J. Essery, OPC 1983.
Page 33 showas a Midland Railway 35 ton gun truck. A good picture and said truck looks remarkably similar to the one above, but the legend though hard to read says 'Load 3? tons'. The gun shown on it looks to be a 9.2" (barrel weight around 27 tons), a favourite RN size gun equating to a 200lb projectile.

Pages 34 & 35 show drawings of 50, 70 & 107 ton Gunsets. The 70 ton is undoubtedly the one pictured in the first book. It has 4 bogies (one of them is cut off in the first picture + the 2 bogies on the chase end wagon hence the '5 bogies') and mentions that it is the breech portion. The runner for the chase (muzzle) end is not shown though in the first picture it is an exact copy of that use for the 35 ton Gunset.

The text mentions that all of these Gunsets were 'handed to the E/NE region on 3rd Feb 1958'.

It also states that apart from the picture of the 35 ton set on page 33 "no pictures are known to exist showing (the other) vehicle(s)"

If I do fall over anything else I will post it here.

Alan