Prewar Mineral Trains Gascoigne Wood - Newport (Teesside)

[Tom F]

As I'm in the process of planning my future layout (Thirsk South Junction), and I'm looking into the freight traffic. The majority of the ECML freight are Class B Goods (plus express freight). There are a couple Class B Mineral trains between Gascoigne Wood and Newport. What this train most likely contain. Coal? Iron Ore?

Thanks

[Boris]

Gascoigne Wood was a colliery

[jwealleans]

Wasn't there a yard there as well?

[Tom F]

Wasn't there a yard there as well?

I was aware there was a large marshalling yard at Gascoigne Wood, but didn't know about the Colliery (Google confirms a Colliery). There are two Class B Mineral Trains from Gascoigne Wood-Newport in the 1938 WTT. One in the morning, the other in the evening each week day.

[Bryan]

I think in the 50s this train from G Wood ran via Starbeck.
My Father in Law used to fire on it working out of Selby shed.

[Tom F]

I think in the 50s this train from G Wood ran via Starbeck.
My Father in Law used to fire on it working out of Selby shed.

Would they have been coal trains Bryan?

[jwealleans]

Hard to say without seeing the WTT, Tom, but if it's a scheduled working it's most likely to work yard to yard. Trains from collieries and quarries were more likely to run 'as required' as production could vary significantly day to day. At one time these were referred to as 'Q' workings, the 'Q' indicating 'runs as required'. I don't know whether that convention had started in the 1930s.

Personally I'd have thought coal from the Leeds area which went any distance would go south rather than north. Middlesbrough and surrounding area would be most likely to bring in coal from the Durham fields.

Iron Ore or ironstone would be brought into Teesside for processing although the local mines were being worked out by the 1930s and the area started to move into steelworking and processing iron rather than smelting.

[Tom F]

Here you are Jonathan.

[Tom F]

Further reading states that 'Gascoigne Wood's purpose was the transfer of coal traffic between the West Riding pits and Hull and Goole'..Stephen Chapman, Railway Memories No.14 Selby and Goole. So this would suggest the Mineral traffic from Gascoigne Wood to Newport, would be coal.

Any further information on the subject would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[jwealleans]

Makes sense - the West Riding isn't known as a hot bed of iron ore mining. It does make you wonder what Yorkshire coal could do that Durham coal couldn't: better for coking, perhaps?

You could ask 'Arthur' in The Other Place - he seems ot have a pretty extensive knowledge of iron and steelmaking and might have an idea why Yorkshire coal came in (if it was for steelmaking at all, of course).

[drmditch]

I've just moved house, but the Victoria Seam, that I used to live on top of, was according to local histories (still packed up in cardboard boxes) was some of the best coking coal in the world. That was under the Deerness Valley and Lanchester lines. Haven't checked the seams under my new house yet, which is next to the Durham - Bishop Auckalnd line.

[52D]

drmditch think Stainmore, a lot of the trains were coke for steelmaking from Durham to Cumberland.

[cambois]

This thread has got a few thoughts going. As Gascoigne Wood was used to assemble coal for shipment, and Newport was on the Tees where coal traffic was assembled for shipment, it may be that there was occasional shipping traffic from west Yorkshire to the Tees for onward travel by sea, or possibly to use as ships bunker fuel.

Different coals used to be loaded into vessels to deliver the correct blend. I certainly remember doing this at West Blyth in the late 70s

[JASd17]

I have attempted a reply to this post, but it got lost.

However, Cambois, 52D and drm are along the same lines. I think it might be export coal, via a NE port, or perhaps something to make a balance of steam raising coal. In that case could it be for locomotive purposes?

The colliery trade was extremely complex. I have a 1924 year book which bears this out.

One of the best LNER photographers, T.G. (Gordon) Hepburn, was involved in the trade, latterly with Carringtons.

John

[Tom F]

Thanks for the thoughts gents.

It's interesting that the morning train from Gascoigne Wood - Newport, ran Tuesday-Saturday and the evening train ran every day. Coal export does sound likely from comments made. There is nothing mentioned about empties working back, or mineral trains working south to Gascoigne Wood.

Another interesting train, appears to join the morning coal train at Thirsk. The Burdale Chalk train arrives via Gilling and Malton at 10.45. Chalk was apparently used as a flux in the Blast Furnaces.