john coffin wrote:Since very few builders photos in 1895-1914 were in colour, it is frankly untrue to say categorically that the colour on anything was specific.
LOL
I just knew someone would bite.....
The two brown liveries are easily distinguished even in monochrome photos as the grey is a solid colour above the waist mouldings, the cream livery had the panels painted cream and the mouldings were picked out in brown. Photos in Dow vols 2&3 clearly show this difference.
john coffin wrote:Since very few builders photos in 1895-1914 were in colour, it is frankly untrue to say categorically that the colour on anything was specific.
LOL
I just knew someone would bite.....
The two brown liveries are easily distinguished even in monochrome photos as the grey is a solid colour above the waist mouldings, the cream livery had the panels painted cream and the mouldings were picked out in brown. Photos in Dow vols 2&3 clearly show this difference.
Hi Bill,
That is an interesting observation, that impacts on a modelling project in cardboard and paper.
40 years ago I built and painted 2 sides and ends of a clerestory third class brake - 5 compartments, one double door, no ducket, and one guards door.
I am now finishing this model, but to my horror, it is in the brown and French grey - with the moulding picked out. So be it, I will finish it anyway.
I no longer know from where I got the plans, probably a Model Railway Constructor of the times. It is likely the brake version of the 8 compartment coach shown in Page 143 of Dow volume 3.
In volume 2 it is stated that brown and French grey was decided upon in 1896 - pictures of WM and CQ railway stock supports your assertion about the grey above the waist.
Gentlemen,
there is, in the GCRS archives a very detailed painting spec for clerestory passenger carriages, dated July 11th 1902.
It clearly specifies Cream and brown with all mouldings above waistline in brown. Headstocks also to be brown and the solebars black. The interior of the guards compts are to be finished in "light green"...and on top of that is all the gilt lining that was applied .
One small point re the WM&CQ....wasn't it "acquired" well after French grey was discontinued ??.
Cheers Tony.
Tony west wrote:Gentlemen,
there is, in the GCRS archives a very detailed painting spec for clerestory passenger carriages, dated July 11th 1902.
It clearly specifies Cream and brown with all mouldings above waistline in brown. Headstocks also to be brown and the solebars black. The interior of the guards compts are to be finished in "light green"...and on top of that is all the gilt lining that was applied .
One small point re the WM&CQ....wasn't it "acquired" well after French grey was discontinued ??.
Cheers Tony.
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the specification details from 1902.
Yes, I think you are correct about that acquisition - 1904. However there was a cross-pollination with the MS&L well prior to this, and in 1897 the MS&L were the appointed receivers to the company.
(Dow vol III p 70)
Photos of some stock (1900) clearly shows a below waist "dark" and above waist "light", so I am not able to say which colouring that was likely to be then.
