Where the coal came from...

[drmditch]

I've recently managed to obtain a copy of F.A.S Brown's biography of Nigel Gresley. (Just beating one of my friends to it!) This is a book that is often referred to by other writers, and it makes interesting reading. I have some questions and observations which I'll post on here when I've done some more research, however there is one detail that has triggered my memory, and I wondered whether anyone else might have any information.

Mr Brown reports information received from K J Cook (as in Doncaster in the 1950s) that the 1923 trials between the NER/NBR/GNR Atlantics used 'good Durham coal from Addison Colliery between Ryton and Blaydon... the calorific value was 14,500 BTU/lb.'

According to the Durham Mining Museum website, Addison only produced steam coal in the 1930's, although it did access the Townley seam that I've seen references to before.
I'll do some more research, but somewhere (other than in Mr Brown's book) I've seen a reference to coal from Ryton being used for Mallard's speed record.

Does anyone know of more about this?

[earlswood nob]

Afternoon all
I bought F.A.S. Brown's biography of Nigel Gresley soon after I left school. It cost 35/- about 20% of my weekly pay.
It also mentions Cock o' the North hauling it's own coal to France, but doesn't mention the supply colliery. Nor does it mention the colliery supplying Mallard's coal.

Earlswood nob

[Si.]

14500 btu is hot coal....

It would be interesting to see the full analysis.....

[52D]

One of my friends is webmaster at the DMM site I will point him to this thread and see if he can help.

[69999]

On p79 of Yeadon Vol 9 'LNER 8-coupled engines' there is a photograph of 2001 leaving Doncaster on 4th December 1934 en route to France via Harwich. Behind the tender is a large bogie loco coal wagon containing some very substantial lumps of coal and lettered in three rows ' London and North Eastern Railway - Best Yorkshire Coal - Yorkshire Main Colliery'. The first number of the wagon is '5' indicating one of the ex GCR wagons. Part of a second similar wagon is also seen. The photograph is credited to 'LNER'.
Yorkshire Main Colliery was at Edlington - near Doncaster.
DG
69999

[52D]

A selection of replies from my friend.
George, Addison only produced steam coal until about 1935. The other Ryton Colliey - Emma or Towneley Main Colliery produced steam coal until 1950. The info comes from HM Inspector of Mines Annual Reports. What is being produced is reported to him for presentation to the Govt. so we must assume the info is correct

was alway led to believe that the LNER/BR NE Region used Easington Steam Coal, though Tweedmouth used Shilbottle


Addison Colliery was a faily shallow colliery with shafts of about 100 fathoms, but it had access to 9 mineable seams. It would produce coal from the seam that provided the best income per ton, so it might produce steam coal for short periods while producing gas coal, manufacturing coal etc for other uses, but probably not all at the same time


I have never heard of this reference of Mallard using Ryton coal for its speed record. Being a Great Northern/LNER loco from GNR area I would have thought it would have used more local coal, say from a South Yorkshire Area pit.

The only coal that went from the North East to the London area, to my knowledge was by collier from the Tyne, Wear, Hartlepool, Seaham, Blyth & Amble to the Gas Works & Power Stations on the Thames.

I hope this helps a little.
























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[1H was 2E]

Only tangentially relevant to "where the coal came from" but does anyone else recollect the different smoke smells produced by locos in different areas? I recollect from loco-spotting days that each of the regions had a distinctive smell at their sheds; and the E.R., particularly at Copley Hill and Ardsley I remember, a very distinctive smell from locos being fired up which could perhaps be described as sharp or acidic.

At the time, I tried very hard to think how that feature could be memorised, but failed; just not possible to describe in words. On the steam railways of the present day there seems to be no smell at all, presumably because imported soft non-steam coal is used.

The coal at the Leeds 56 sheds was certainly hard; I clearly recollect a lump about 1ft 6 cube that fell off a V2's tender near the coaler and remained intact - can't remember the shed.

[markindurham]

Different smells due to the included impurities in the coal, presumably, which could vary from pit to it, & even from different seams from the same colliery - sulphur content probably being a biggie...

[Tom F]

Very interesting. Does this mean that York Depot would be using coal from County Durham?

[jwealleans]

As a North Eastern depot, I'd guess yes as it's an 'internal' movement, rather than paying the GN to haul it up from south Yorkshire.

Unless the LNER went onto collective purchasing, I'd guess that the pre-1923 arrangement went on until BR. Once these things were in place they tended to remain.

[Tom F]

As a North Eastern depot, I'd guess yes as it's an 'internal' movement, rather than paying the GN to haul it up from south Yorkshire.

Unless the LNER went onto collective purchasing, I'd guess that the pre-1923 arrangement went on until BR. Once these things were in place they tended to remain.

Thanks JW, you probably know why I'm asking.

[Si.]

Many deep mined indigenous coals had a high Sulphur content, which does give a sharp acidic smoke, so is indeed probably responsible for the memorable scent.

It was this high sulphur content which caused the generating industry to look for lower Sulphur imported coals. In addition to the obvious economic considerations. Environmental legislation prevents many users burning high Sulphur fuels, without expensive emission abatement equipment.

[drmditch]

Thank you everybody for your replies. I'll follow this subject up more later in the year. Before the days of the NCB a lot would be to do with the collieries the railway company (NER and presumably LNER) contracted with. The NER contract in the earlier years of the 20th Century was quite keenly fought for.

I think there is a lot more to research on this subject. In WW2 some coal continued to go south by sea, because a lot of the terminals, especially gas works and power stations in the south were set up for marine rather than rail transport. However, the dangers of coastal transport in both world wars must have caused much coal to be diverted to railway movement. In WW1 the supply of Welsh coal for RN ships meant special coal trains to the Humber ports as well as to Scotland. I have seen references to these but not those, surprisingly, which must have run to Harwich and/or Felixstowe.

A lot here we need to research. After all coal was the lifeblood of the country not just the railways.

[Bill Bedford]

As a North Eastern depot, I'd guess yes as it's an 'internal' movement, rather than paying the GN to haul it up from south Yorkshire.

The North Eastern was a partner in the South Yorkshire Railway, and presuming they had running right between Potteric Car junction and Askern junction they would be able to run their own trains from Anston, Dinnington and Maltby.

[52D]

Thanks for that Bill I was under the impression that the furthest South the NER got was Normanton I didn't realise they were part of the SY Joint.