Computer Coloured Monochrome

[Darwin4975]

This thread has averaged over 1000 visits per month over the past seven months which indicates to me that it is rather more than the gimmick suggested by the site Administrator on the very first day. Personally I find the interest shown confirms the notion that there would be a demand for this sort of thing -so long as it is done properly.

I expect that the sight of a streamlined B17 in colour will generate some interest as in their streamlined form these two engines were rarely photographed and few images exist of them, especially working. The attached picture is one from The Transport Treasury's wonderful archive of b/w images. (Anyone who has not yet visited the Transport Treasury's website is strongly recommended to do so as it has much to offer.) The original was taken by Dr Ian Allen, a GP who lived in East Anglia. Unfortunately Dr Allen did not always record where his photographs were taken and the location of this picture is unknown. The quality is not of the best for CCM in terms of sharpness or interesting items such as signals, buildings etc but the rarity factor more than makes up for this. The date is also unknown but likely to be pre-War.

Can anyone confirm that the number on the front of the locomotive was in white (with red shading)? I have recently seen an image of one of the preserved A4s with this number painted on in gold, which I believe to be incorrect.

[jwealleans]

Dr Allen did not always record where his photographs were taken and the location of this picture is unknown.

One of our club members was a friend of Dr. Allen. He says he NEVER recorded where his photographs were taken and very seldom when. A curious omission from one who was a meticulous recorder of the GE area.

[mick b]

Front number would be Gold shaded as other Numbers on Loco. A4's had Silver Front Nos depending on period.

[61962]

The numbering on the green A4s and B17/5 buffer beams and the blue general purpose A4s was gold, as the cab sides but shaded in brown and red rather than black and red that non streamlined streamlined engines carried. Exceptions were the silver engines which originally had no number on the front but eventually received sliver shaded numbers and 4498 Sir Nigel Gresley which ran with silver shaded cab side and front numbers until its first overhaul. The Coronation engines were fitted with stainless steel cabside numbers and had larger unshaded gill sans numbers in silver on the front. See photos of Bittern masquerading as Dominion of New Zealand and as 4464 in general service livery for the two styles prewar. Post war the Coronation style numbering and lettering was adopted until BR introduced the smokebox number plate.

Eddie

[Darwin4975]

That's useful information -thanks. The image has been amended.

(Yeadon in his coverage of B17 liveries does not mention the streamlined B17/5s at all.)

[61962]

Something that didn't register when I looked at your work last night is that the valences or skirts below the footplate should be black rather than green as you have coloured them. There is a photograph in Yeadons that clearly shows this.

Regards

Eddie

[S.A.C. Martin]

That's meant to be the reflection of the grass bank in the paintwork, surely? Black gloss paintwork is surprisingly mirror like in colour photographs.

[giner]

Weird, the valence appears to be of two colours. The part over the front bogie looks black, the remainder looks green. Maybe the slight curvature of the valence accounts for this, if indeed it is a reflection of the grass bank. It must be very difficult to ascertain certain aspects from a b&w original.

[Darwin4975]

This is where the input of others can be extremely important to achieve accurate results. I must confess I was forgetting that the green liveried A4s had black valences and was taken in by the negative density which seemed the same as the boiler cladding.

The first image below is the original negative and the second one shows the part in question, in more detail. The dark leading area of the valence certainly suggests black but the remainder appears not -and to me it doesn't look like reflection either. There are no obvious shadows so the sun seems not to have been out at the time. Would there have been a hint of green reflected from the grass in the valence? Quite possibly, but more likely on a sunny day and also more likely if the grass verge was closer and steeper.

The valence negative density is just not what one would expect under these conditions but knowing that the valence was black makes a difference. Thanks to Eddie for the reminder. Image 5a has the green 'paint' taken off -but it still doesn't look absolutely right to me. Perhaps cameras can be less than truthful after all.

[61962]

Not being a lighting expert, I may be treading where angels fear, but the light appears to be coming from the left rear of the locomotive (looking at the cab roof and tender top) and reflecting partially from the valence towards the camera. The footplate and the valence on the streamliners actually curves towards the centreline of the loco ahead of the cylinders and as I see it the darkening of the valence corresponds with the reflected light being deflected more to the left of the camera as if this area was in shade. It looks like one of those days when there is a thin cloud cover so its bright but with no clearly defined shadow.

Eddie

[Darwin4975]

Before getting carried away by this B17/5 image debate, maybe the time has come for something else. Another B17, but a standard model in this case. The Transport Treasury archive also supplies this gem, -No 2812 was photographed at an unknown shed in the 1930s.

Houghton Hall was a Stratford engine almost all her days, not moving away from there from new until a year or so before withdrawal. The location is probably not Stratford but some destination shed likely to be in East Anglia (any ideas?)

The picture was taken early on in the engine's career as she still has the very short cylinder drain pipes. This low resolution image may not show it but the top of boiler and dome have been given a coating of grime as she is in less than pristine condition and certainly not ex-works. (Some lining is missing on the cab and at the bottom of the first boiler band.)

[Darwin4975]

Each negative has its own challenges. I would estimate that over 99% rule themselves out of being worth the effort for one reason or another -lack of sharpness being the most usual followed by excessive contrast.

The B17/5 was too interesting to forego because of the engine itself. This one likewise because of the location.

An evening shot with the train coming north and the sun out, but the sea under heavy cloud.

Another lovely scene from John Robertson's camera. With thanks to the Transport Treasury.

[cambois]

A really great photo

The sky over the sea here (Berwickshire coast south of Burnmouth) often looks like that and I have seen it many times on my travels on the East Coast

[52D]

Well spotted Cammus, I was going to add a little more, I have a set of pics from 1949 showing that wall to the left with a rather large hole in it plus some more shots of the repair work. This was in the Aftermath of the 1948 flooding which had caused a lot of the land to become unstable.

[52D]

Enclosed four pics of K3 location in 1949 courtesy Doug Spratt. Actual location is Lamberton Shiel.