Remembrance day 11/11/11

[60800]

We as the people of the world will remember them.
But I want to remember our heroes in a special way, a way that only the railway community can do.
This thread is about what we can do in railway terms for the fighting and fallen.

I will kick off with my contribution, a poppy wreath on Green Arrow for the weekend.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

We are remembering our soldiers to, we buried a couple of them in Queensland on the 11/11/11, three men shot by a 'rogue' Afghan soldier, RIP.

manna

[Boris]

When was the last time "Valour" came to Sheffield Victoria

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Mrs BB has related a tale of some ignoramus who prattled online throughout the 2 min silence, cracking jokes about Viagra. When challenged, this ignoramus's answer was that she was "sick of all this Remembrance rubbish and its glorification of war."

2 points spring to mind.

1. Remember that in wars PEOPLE DIE! This is not glorification. If our current crop of political leaders remembered this, then maybe the world would be a better place.

2. Had no-one opposed the Nazis in 1939ish, then such statements would be punished most severely by lame men in long leather coats.

I have recently discovered that my Great Uncle Alfred was sent home from the Battle of Vimy Ridge in 1915 to die of his wounds. This took 18 months. My own father took over 40 years to die but at the bottom line were injuries received just after Monte Casino.


Remember the dead but forget not the living. The vets need all the help they can get.

[strang steel]

I am replying with some trepidation, in view of the response that I may get.

My grandfather won the Military Medal in WW1, not the Military Cross because that was only awarded to officers. He lost hundreds of mates in Flanders, and had very forceful views on the futility of war, all war.

His point was that the poppy was an emblem chosen because of its connection to those who died in a pointless bloodbath (in his, and many others' view), and the only way the survivors could cope with this, was if it also became the war to end all wars.

But of course it didn't, and in his mind all those millions of lives lost in WW1 (not just soldiers, but innocent civilians) were just wasted. He would be turning in his grave now if he could see what has been done in the name of the Poppy Appeal these days.

I know folk mean well, but the whole idea of Remembrance Sunday seems to be getting lost in a media frenzy, which results in the receipt of hate mail for anyone who appears on TV not wearing a poppy in the three weeks (yes three weeks now) leading up to the Sunday procession to the Cenotaph.

My grandfather would not wear his poppy with pride, because to him pride was one of the seven deadly sins, and there was no pride in war in those days. He would wear his poppy with sadness and regret that mankind has gone so far off the rails.

As BB says, it is the politicians who have the control - but they will attend the wreath laying today and then probably go back to work tomorrow saying, 'right, who shall we bomb next'?

I am really sorry if some people find this upsetting.

[60800]

My views are pretty much the same. My little poppy wreath (currently on Tornado because Green Arrow's snapped a wire and won't move....again) is not there in pride for our country, but it is there in respect and grief for those who have been slaughtered in war, wether it be the Crimean war, the world wars, the Korean and Vitenam wars or today's conflicts.

Many people unfortunately seem to have a one sighted view that remembrance day is only to do with WW1. There is also grief for those who were not even fighting, who lost husbands and wives and in WW2 for example, were probably killed themselves

[Mickey]

My views are pretty much the same. My little poppy wreath (currently on Tornado because Green Arrow's snapped a wire and won't move....again) is not there in pride for our country, but it is there in respect and grief for those who have been slaughtered in war, wether it be the Crimean war, the world wars, the Korean and Vitenam wars or today's conflicts.

Another one of my many interests other then railways is past conflicts throughout the world and mention of the Crimean war by blackout60800 reminds me of the glorious british 'cock up' of the famous CHARGE OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE during the battle of BALACLAVA in October 1854 were 666 (roughly) british light horse cavalry lead by lord Cardigan charged onto the Russian guns head on!!

After entering the Russian gun battery lines and sabring the Russian gunner's to death a large group of Russian Ulan's (lancer's) & cossacks made a 'half hearted' attempt to surround the survivor's of the charge and cut off there withdrawal back to the british lines only for the two main groups of surviving british calvalrymen to turnabout and face the closing Russian's and then charge them face on again which broke the Russian's will to pursue 'to closely' the withdrawing british!!

Of course it was carnage in both men and horses but the Russian's were shaken by this british action (they concurred that all the british cavalrymen were all drunk!! - they wasn't infact many of them hadn't even eaten breakfast that morning!!) and preferred to keep there distance whenever british cavalry were in the field thereafter

[Coboman]

When was the last time "Valour" came to Sheffield Victoria

1947 IIRC
You'd have thought the three locos dedicated to those railway staff who fell in WW1 would have had a secure future, but where are "Rememberance", "Patriot" and "Valour" now? Has nobody any respect anymore?

[Coboman]

I am replying with some trepidation, in view of the response that I may get.

My grandfather won the Military Medal in WW1, not the Military Cross because that was only awarded to officers. He lost hundreds of mates in Flanders, and had very forceful views on the futility of war, all war.

His point was that the poppy was an emblem chosen because of its connection to those who died in a pointless bloodbath (in his, and many others' view), and the only way the survivors could cope with this, was if it also became the war to end all wars.

But of course it didn't, and in his mind all those millions of lives lost in WW1 (not just soldiers, but innocent civilians) were just wasted. He would be turning in his grave now if he could see what has been done in the name of the Poppy Appeal these days.

I know folk mean well, but the whole idea of Remembrance Sunday seems to be getting lost in a media frenzy, which results in the receipt of hate mail for anyone who appears on TV not wearing a poppy in the three weeks (yes three weeks now) leading up to the Sunday procession to the Cenotaph.

My grandfather would not wear his poppy with pride, because to him pride was one of the seven deadly sins, and there was no pride in war in those days. He would wear his poppy with sadness and regret that mankind has gone so far off the rails.

As BB says, it is the politicians who have the control - but they will attend the wreath laying today and then probably go back to work tomorrow saying, 'right, who shall we bomb next'?

I am really sorry if some people find this upsetting.

If this was one of those forums when you could click a "like" button, or add to the posters reputation etc, I'd be clicking now. Very well said sir.
Jim

[bricam5]

I go along with the above sentiments and I am sickened by the sheer hypocracy of our so called leaders with solemn faces at the London Cenotaph at the same time plotting which oil rich country can we invade next.
I am getting on in years now (over 80 ) and I fought in the Korean conflict. Not as an eager volunteer but as ordered to do so.
I saw people killed on both sides and the spectacle sickened me coupled with knowledge that we were not defending our country but fighting for some vague principle which no one in our company could understand.

If only these bloodthirsty idiots would and could remember, I would buy a ton of poppies.

[Autocar Publicity]

War is delightful to those who have had no experience of it. I think it is also far too serious a matter to be left in the hands of politicians. Warlords, treating people - both 'us' and 'them' as pawns in their power games - are not confined to the pages of history books. It's not very realistic, but I'd like to see more national leaders leading troops into battle (preferably not on a white horse, why drag them into it?) and settling disputes by single combat. That should install a sense of responsibility and restraint.

At Hull exhibition this weekend, we had a silence at 11 and the Legion had a stand. I didn't wear a poppy myself - I tend to impale myself with the pin - but we put one on a wooden cross on the stand and we were not the only ones. I have to say I don't like the way it has become a fashion accessory - I agree with Strang Steel's comments about how this act of remembrance has been hi-jacked by the media and 'bien-pensants'.

[Postman Prat]

Hi Strang Steel

I agree with every word. War is totally futile. Ten years down the line and yesterday's enemy is todays best friend.The idea of a senior politician at the head of the troops and engaging in single combat has definite appeal but I think is a non-starter. A line in Mike Hardings 'Bombers Moon' is going round my head "Old men sending young men off to die!"

Final thought from me ; There's damn all glorious about being dead!!

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

The whole thing about the poppy is to raise funds for the British Legion. If its an accessory, at least the Legion get something for it.

Managed to find the poppy for my car grille this year - been looking for one for ages.

[Postman Prat]

To lighten up...

BB

Do you mean the same poppy as you used last year and all the previous years???

[Blink Bonny]

OIC!

I never thought of that. Despite being a tight Yorkshireman with a vicious wallet, I buy a new one every year.